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Kathi Burns  0:04  
Hi there, I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you who want to take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at organize energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now let's get into the show. Hi everyone, I am back with Melitta Campbell.  I'm very excited for you to get to know her and get to know a little bit more about her expertise because she has a lot to bring forward to the world. As we as women, female entrepreneurs are taking the bull by the horns and getting down to business. So thanks, Melitta, for being on the show. I really appreciate your time.

Melitta Campbell  1:06  
Oh, you're welcome. I'm really excited to be here too. I think we're gonna have a really juicy discussion today.

Kathi Burns  1:11  
Absolutely, let's get down to the juice. But let's start with how you got into doing what you're doing. So give me a little bit of the backstory. I've read a lot on your website and it's really quite interesting. What did you do before you became a business coach for women entrepreneurs?

Melitta Campbell  1:27  
I started my business 14 years ago, I at that time, I was head of communication for a private bank based in Geneva in Switzerland. I loved my role. I was doing communication coaching for leaders, this top 60 leaders across the bank, which I was really, really enjoying, I'd put some masterminds in place to help them.  I've also even running a Women's Network, which was really helping to change the culture. Because the culture here, I went from London to Geneva and thinking it was Switzerland was very progressive and found myself landed in the 70s. So the women's network really opened the door to more women progressing in their career. The combination of all that I really, really enjoyed, I just been promoted to report directly to the CEO, so I could really have more influence within the bank as well. But when my daughter came along, it's like, okay, it's an hour commute there and back from where I live to the office, I worked 110%. I just couldn't see myself, either just seeing my daughter for fleeting moments every day, or we're not doing a good job at work. I didn't want to have that that compromise wasn't really, I don't think you'd work in communication, and not be there and build those relationships. So I decided to start my own business instead. It sounds like a very formal decision, it was more kind of a lunch with the friends that well, maybe I could just write a newsletter or something, and landed my first client because she happened to know someone that was looking for someone to write a newsletter and so I just started there. Just really easy, it was work that I could do in my sleep that I could do very well. So it was the perfect start point. But of course very quickly, I was really involved in more communication strategy for lots of fortune 500 companies and leaders and leaders at the UN, it was made me giggle because I was working with them, writing on their behalf of these, like most powerful men in the world while bouncing a baby under my desk. It was quite surreal. But yeah, so I just wanted flexibility and to keep my hand in and that was really my big motivation  at the time. I didn't necessarily have a big higher vision, per se. But as I got into that business, about eight years in, I really started to burn out. I didn't burn out, but I was really having the signs of that my health was suffering, I wasn't sleeping well. I started to think, well, what am I even doing, I wasn't loving my work wasn't giving me energy and joy anymore. So I took a step back, and we evaluated my purpose and then thought, my skills is all around communication and marketing and, and creating meaning and value in the marketplace. I saw so many other women around me through the networks that I had and they had amazing talents and skills and backgrounds and everything. But they were really struggling to communicate their value, and charge their worth, and work with enough of the right clients to have a viable business thought. Actually, that is where I can have the most impact. That's where my heart really feels at home.  I can use all of my skills to date to help them so yeah, so that's how I got to where I am today.

Kathi Burns  4:50  
That's pretty amazing. I have a friend who's a physicist from Switzerland, he said the same thing and he's a male in that world. He left because he said it was to back in the 70s, like not really move forward as far as business as culture goes, so I can understand that. But good for you. So you started writing a newsletter and women out here, listen to this, you're not stuck in your corporate culture, you're not stuck in your job. Right? Melitta like you can branch out, and you can do whatever you want to do. So you actually started writing newsletters for the companies that, that you were in your association and for your former boss, was it or not?

Melitta Campbell  5:30  
No, it was actually the company, local to me was with Nestle and their headquarters is, is just down the road from where I live. So I had a few friends that work there and that's how I just happened to have lunch with someone they didn't want me, but I could just do this. I know someone looking for someone to write newsletters, and she put me in touch and it turned out to be someone that I knew through the local connections I had. Also, what I had been doing for close to 10 years before that was running, co founding the Dyneema communicators network, so I haven't good network in the communication field. So as soon as I went out to them and said, oh, actually, this is what I'm doing now. I never had to do even though as marketing background, I never actually needed to market myself very much. Because that I had a good reputation and the work came to me. I started just doing network newsletters. But I think the people that I worked with, through the questions that I asked and the approach that I had, and the way I delivered my work, they could tell that actually, I could do a lot more for them. Then they were actually can you do this? And can you do that?  I got involved in some extraordinary projects in the end. So it was really, it was really fun for a while. But as I say it was just a big step away from my core purpose. Really.

Kathi Burns  6:50  
Yeah. It's interesting, though, you said a couple things that really struck my mind. You said that you could do a newsletter, you could do it, asleep.  I think that that's one of the gifts that we can find. We all have things that we can do in our sleep, which I think is like a god gift, which is an easy way to start a business. If you could do something that's effortless, that's one way to kind of figure out what you might want to do. Don't you think like whatever you think is easy to start.

Melitta Campbell  7:20  
Exactly. And I think you don't have to start some huge enterprise just start with one thing, and you do it on the side, if you if you're in a job, and you're not quite sure if you're ready to take that leap. Don't just do a little thing on the side for yourself. Because I kind of feel if you studied entrepreneurship for 10 years, and then started your own business, you would then realize, oh, actually, I need to know all of this. So just starting somewhere, teaches you the mindset you need, it teaches you to start making the right connections with teachers you what you like, what you don't like what your purpose is, who you like working with your approach. There's so much you need to learn about how you want to do business, and how you want to show up and what resonates with your ideal clients. It's your business evolves. So just start anywhere, it really doesn't matter where you start, because wherever you start is never where you end up. Because particularly if you're coming from corporate, I think we've been trained to think small, corporate, we have this smart objectives, which tells us no go for what you know you can achieve. But as an entrepreneur, I mean, that's like so boring. Why would you wake up every day to do something you know you can do you really want these more these dumb goals, you know, the dream based goals that unify your values, your vision, and help you grow. So you want something that's going to push you. So you know this? Yeah, start and see where you end up.

Kathi Burns  8:47  
Yeah, I love that. The reason that you were so seamless for you, too, is that you did something from your heart center, which you created the women's network. So I think that was just something that you did, because you felt that it was just needed, and you gave it from your heart. That grew and that allowed you to jump pulled into what you were doing. So tell me about when you landed your first, not your first newsletter client, but your first client as a business coach, how did that feel? Tell us a little bit of story about that with your first client?

Melitta Campbell  9:19  
Yeah, so it was interesting because I, I looked at it for a long time, people were coming to me and asked me, Well, will you coach me? Will you help me grow my business?  I said no, I can't do that. Then I think there was a point where in the period of three weeks, it was really quite close together. I had so many women that six women come to me and the last one was like, but you're the only one that can help me you have to do this and it's like, okay, well tell me a bit more about where you're struggling. Then I started to go to the market and find out. Well, what was the problem here? Why couldn't they build this business? It was just that lack of knowledge of what a business is.  I think part of it is that they, they didn't trust themselves, because they thought I don't have a business background. Actually, a lot of the work I do with my clients is to help them discover that actually, they really do know what it takes to build a business. Particularly if you've ever raised a family, same thing, really. It's just organizing and strategizing, what you want to create, and where you can add most value. I find it comes very natural to a lot of women once they have the framework. So I provide the framework to help them really dig deep into what is it exactly that they offer? What's valuable about that to them? Why is it important for them to bring that out? Why is that valuable for their clients and really see where those two things overlap, and then build everything in that space. So they're their products, their marketing, their messaging, their processes. Because everything is coming from the same place, it's all aligned, it doesn't feel like everything is bolted on. Sometimes when I work with my clients they've kind of gotten to the stage where their business feels a bit like a kid's art project Where they've just been sticking glittery things everywhere, or that looks cute, I'll stick it there. Oh, this doesn't really represent what I wanted anymore. So we just strip it all back and just refine it. So its often I don't need to teach them anything, just help them, guide them to creating something that feels cohesive, feels valuable, feels meaningful, and therefore they can implement it with confidence.

Kathi Burns  11:33  
They need that so much. I found that a lot of my women clients that are coming from corporate. As the systems are already built, the systems are built, and all you have to do is follow them. But you don't really take time to glance around and see, even if things as basic as hell was the office space design, because you just walk in sit downand there it is. Then when I find when women go into their own home office, and they start their own home business, that they don't quite know how things should be set up, or what's the best systems to use, just like you said, or how to integrate them all. Without this is key without getting lost and stuck in the muck of their stuff. and still being able to have the business of their dreams and not be just be stuck with multiple systems, as you say that are patchwork together. I'm so in alignment with you on that. That's something that everyone needs. So if you had to reinvent all over again, and I know there's really no way going back to it. What would you do to put yourself faster into what you're doing right now? Is there anything that you would change with your with your path?

Melitta Campbell  12:38  
Yeah, great question. In one way, no, because I say it's all been an evolution. Looking back and people oh, well, it my career path looks very logical. But at the time, it didn't feel that way. Every new step felt very brave, very new, very like, oh, can I really do this? And then you dig into it? And then looking back, it's like, well, of course I could have done that. But you have to take each step to grow and push yourself and then see oh, yeah, of course, I was always going to be able to do that, but but at the time, I say it felt very courageous to do. So in a way no. But if I were to start all over again, I would definitely stepping back and do things in a much simpler way. But it's only through hindsight that I've learned that and I would definitely ask for help. My first business, I came so close to burnout, because I was trying to do everything myself, you know, I was putting everything into my family, everything into my clients, and I left nothing for myself. The longer I do this, the more I realized that if you really want to create success on your own terms, it starts with self love. You have to love and respect yourself enough to put the boundaries in place. To say, no, I'm not doing that, or certainly not now, because this is what I'm working on and to strip everything back. Now I just have 90 Day goals. It is work to one thing over those 90 days. Because 90 days, you can really achieve something great. It's not so anything, that's how I'm going to do that in a year. You know, it's just too far away, but three months, it's not too far away. It's a nice chunk of time to really get your teeth into it. Then to do like one core business project and one core personal development project within that time, so I'm continually growing and continuing to make progress. But it's taking time to strip things back and say it's okay just to do one thing, and then move on to the next project because I say everything builds then. So yeah, if I was to start again, I would, I would just keep it simple.

Kathi Burns  14:42  
Keep it simple. Yes. Simplify, simplify, simplify. When you don't stop to think just like I like your 90 day idea, because if you don't stop to really plan what you're doing, you'll just keep building systems after systems, and then all of a sudden you're lost in your system. Right? So that's brilliant. So do you have a favorite hack that you would that you tell entrepreneurs that want to create more freedom? I know we touched on it a little bit already, if they want more freedom in their business, besides simplification, obviously, what would you what would you say?

Melitta Campbell  15:19  
I think the hack, it would have to be to get a coach or mentor, or at least to surround yourself with, I've got a business bestie, who's amazing. We get together once a month, and we have CEO day where we kind of dig into our plans give feedback. That's a great way to keep things simple. I remember the last one, she was like, Wow, I'm doing this as well, why don't you just do this? She said, you're a genius, I was like, well if that and that what you're already doing, and bring that into this thing, then you know that they added value when you're doing not doing anything extra. Then she did something very similar for me as well, I'm kind of thinking all of this. Whoa, you're so right. So we really help each other to keep things simple. I know and on paper, we're even competitors, you know, we work in the same sort of area of same level, same clients, but very different approaches. So it's been really nice to have that sort of collaboration, if you like. So that's been helped, but also having a business coach. So when I started this business, I, I think, in my first business, if I knew that there were things like business coaches, and I had believed that I deserved one and invested in myself, then I think I would have had a very different experience in that business, that would have created something very, very different. But when I decided to pivot into business coaching, the first thing I did was get a business coach, and work together with her to say, well, this is the challenge that the these women have. I think I can help them with this sort of structure and framework. How do I turn that into a business. So we worked together. and within I think, six weeks, I had my first client because it just went so much faster. I think women learn very well, from women, we like to communicate, we like to not just dive in, but that sort of check with people a little bit and just round things out together. So having a coach or a mentor on your side, I think is just invaluable. So I think that would be that would be my number one hack. And I know I'm a bit biased being a business coach. But honestly, I don't know any coaches that don't have a coach because they understand the value of the coaching and how much of a shortcut it really is.

Kathi Burns  17:31  
Yeah, absolutely. Master hire Masters is one of the chapters in my book. The most masterful people always have other people that they've employed to help them see what they can't see. So for sure, I love the idea of you and your girlfriend, you meet once a week and do CEO day or once a month?

Melitta Campbell  17:49  
Yeah, yeah, it's great. It really helps move our business forward. Exceptionally, I'm also in a mastermind as well. I love that, again, that it's it's just the again, it's full of business coaches. So they're, they're sort of competitors, but we really help each other and, and everyone's had such diverse experiences, that you we all support each other and come away with something much, much better. So by working together, we're all really helping to have more impact together. So it's, it's really Yeah, a really nice experience.

Kathi Burns  18:24  
What I think is so impactful about that is that there's enough business for everybody. And even if you're doing the same business, it doesn't matter because different people are going to resonate with different people. There's more than enough business out there, especially right now 60% of the women, at least in America, leaving their corporate jobs and going into creating their own business. That alone should show you that there's enough no matter what you want to do, there's going to be other people out there that are doing it better, maybe not as good, but people who are looking for support and calling on the support of each other. That little thing together, we're better but it's true. Especially as women and I love the fact that you're a proponent of sharing and collaborating with competitors. Because guess what, we're not ever really competitors. We're here to support each other. One person that loves me is not going to love you or loves you not gonna love me, it's all the same doesn't matter, because there's enough business for everyone. I think that's a really valid thing for all of you to keep in mind as you're listening to this podcast. There's more than enough always, always enough business. Don't be scared to collaborate with people that are doing what you do. I found that my most nurturing relationships are actually other professional organizers. I interview a lot of professional organizers like my guests. So what you know, we all come from a different way, right? We all come from we say it differently. We think differently. We teach it differently. I'm sure that your coaching is completely different from your friend and you do the CEO and work, which I think is a spectacular idea, and I have to start implementing that myself.

Melitta Campbell  20:05  
Jamie knows down the road from us, you could join us. Yeah, exactly. The more you have these conversations with your so called competitors, you realize that you're not really, that you are actually offering something very different, you come from very different background. So my business bestie, her background and how she came to do, what she does is completely different to my background, and how I've come to get to where I am. And so her clients and my clients are completely different women. So it's an A now I'm starting to branch out to men as I feel, in the last couple of years, men have changed as well. For the first time, I can see them trying to achieve exactly the same as the women were in a more sort of gentle and authentic way. I love that. So you know, not every new one is the perfect client. But I'm finding more and more men that I feel, actually, they would really resonate with my work, I'd love to support them.  I think they're going to work really well with my group as well. The women in my group for four were like, oh, no, we only want women but now they're the same way. Actually, I think better diversity be really helpful and interesting. So is always evolving. It's, that's what keeps it interesting.

Kathi Burns  21:17  
Do you find that that your clients are similar backgrounds to you? Your friends clients are similar backgrounds to her? And that's why you resonate?

Melitta Campbell  21:27  
Yeah. So I have you ever heard me say she's got a slightly more hippie background and I've got more of a kind of academic background. I think our clients do, definitely resonate, resonate with that. A lot of my clients are, you said it earlier that when you work in corporate, you have that structure, that framework. So a lot of my clients are experts in branding, marketing, communication. They're like, we should be able to do this for ourselves. But when it comes to marketing yourself, and selling yourself with no resources, no existing framework, it's hard. So you do value having someone else to bounce off of. So yeah, so a lot of my clients are a little bit older, they have had a very successful corporate career. But now they're ready to create success on their own terms, to take all of that mazing experience that they've had and the training and put it to use in a way that they want, or to consult with a framework that they've created that they believe is going to have more of an impact than the kind of the status quo within corporate. So yeah, it's I just love the diversity as well. You never know where someone's going to get to just how amazing a business model they're going to create. I just believe in their, their skills and their passion and their vision.

Kathi Burns  22:50  
Yeah, I love that. We're all individuals. I love watching the metamorphosis of clients as they, as they get it. It's so much fun, right? You see them go, whoo, Oh, wow. And they create something even more marvelous than then it was imagined by anyoner eally. It's like, that's the great thing. Yeah. So let's take a step back and let's talk about when you felt stuck, and you just felt overwhelmed, and you were burnout and you were stuck in busyness is what I call it. What did you do? What was the tool that you found that pulled you out of that? That whatever stuck in the muck and stuff, and helped you reinvent and move into the next level of your career?

Melitta Campbell  23:35  
It's hard, isn't it? Because wherever when you are stuck in the mud, you really are stuck, and you can't see a way out. It took me eight years to kind of wake up to the fact that I was facing a burnout. But I think I was aware of it for a good couple of years before that. But I didn't dare think that I could do something different. Because I thought, well, if I don't do this, what would I do? I don't want to go back and have a job. I didn't want to do nothing.  I just really was closed off to any other situation. So I think there's that great quote by JK Rowling when she said like, rock bottom was the solid foundation on which I could kick off. I kind of felt that's where I got to was a breakdown in the school carpark where there was just, it was one really silly thing, but it was just one thing too many.  I just like, was crying and uncontrollably in my car and a friend just got into go home. Rest take whatever time you need. I've got the kids. I'll take them for as long as you need. But thank you. And it was that point where I was like, No, I can't continue like this, so it was really had to have something because sometimes the universe is always giving you those messages. Sometimes it's just a big frying pan until the heads wake up and do something. Yeah, so at that point, I just asked for help. I said to my husband, I how can I change? This is what I want, but I didn't know how to get there and he said I can do this for you? Oh, well, that would be that would really help. I started to ask and then when I was telling my my friends like, Well, I kind of feel I want to do this, I don't know how to do it and, and how am I going to manage all of this? They're like, well, I can help with this and hobbies put into it. It was just all these resources came flooding in.  I think that's, that's the first step, which is having the courage to have the conversations with other people and ask for help,then things start to come. But at that point, there was two things there was a meant a quote, I read by Richard Branson, did I forget his name. It said, if it's no longer fun, stop doing it. And as I, well I'm doing really isn't fun. So it was like, Okay, that was almost like the permission to say, stop, because it was earning a lot of money. So to just stop doing that and do something completely different and start over, I felt very scary. But that was the kind of the permission I needed. Then as I was trying to redesign how I was going to work, and a mentor came out and said, it was remember, you can't ride two horses with one offs. That really taught me just one thing at a time. So I just focused on one thing, one market, one product, one type of customer. I went out and I my first day that I kind of opened doors, so to speak. I got four clients, and that's all I needed. So I was like, Okay, this, this can be a thing and then it's kind of grown and evolved from there. But I'm always in the back of my mind thinking how could this be simpler? Remember, you can't ride two horses with one backside.

Kathi Burns  26:43  
I love that. Yeah, that's good. Okay, so do you have a favorite organizing hack? You know, I have to ask this because we're all entrepreneurs and we all have things that we really love to groove on. What's your favorite thing to keep yourself organized and streamlined? What do you use? A hack or software or whatever?

Melitta Campbell  27:01  
Yeah, well, I have to say my new electronic Notepad is is brilliant, because I'm old fashioned, like to take notes.It kind of sinks into the brain better that way. But I had notes everywhere I was, I was very good at filing, but not at remembering my filing system. Things that are filed away and forgotten. But now I actually can access my notes and use them. So that's probably my latest hack, I think. But yeah, that just always asked myself as well, how can this be simpler, you know, when something is feeling a bit overwhelming, and you can just feel it all kind of bubbling up like that, hold on a minute, this, it shouldn't feel this way, there's a simpler way. Then often just go for a walk and it goes, just you listening. Okay.

Kathi Burns  27:45  
That's getting out of your own way, too, if you feel yourself all bogged on that is it really is good to just go outside, seriously, there's so many, a lot of my podcast guests have said, I just get up and go away. I just get up and walk. That's a hack for me. So if you feel yourself getting stressed and depressed, actually changing your environment is a good tip for sure. Yeah. And I like what you said earlier about if you say what you need, people will always come to your rescue. It's ironic and it's true. You just have to say I need help. Even if you don't know what kind of help you need. You'll get that input from people just as you did, I think so good for you. Sounds like you've made a lot of scary jumps and it's always worked out for you.

Melitta Campbell  28:28  
I think you have to have a bit of faith that it will work out. And I kind of feel now that there is no such thing as failure because even if it doesn't work out as planned, you always learn often you come away with something even better, you're in a stronger position, you've had to make relationships in a certain way that's given you more more strength. So there's there's always an upside so knowing that there is no failure really. It that helps with the courage I think.

Kathi Burns  29:03  
It reminds me of Thomas Edison after trying electricity so many times he's like, I'm 20,000 times closer to coming to the conclusion and to the to the solution, right?

Melitta Campbell  29:14  
Yes. As an entrepreneur, you have to be a little bit stubborn, and to hang in there. Just keep going towards that vision. And you will get there and is there in particular if you get support or you ask for help, you'll get there a lot quicker.

Kathi Burns  29:27  
Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Okay, so what's the best piece of advice that anyone's ever given you?

Melitta Campbell  29:33  
Oh, I think it's that horse quote.

Kathi Burns  29:36  
Horse quote. That's a good one. I read one that your dad said though, on your on your website.

Melitta Campbell  29:41  
Yeah he did. He said, whatever choices you make, whatever decisions you make, make sure it results in choice. That is instantly also the best answer to an interview question ever. But where are you going to be in five years time? Well, I don't know. But I, I hope to have a choice. But seriously, no thinking that okay, well, if I do this, how is it going to help me grow? How is it it's expanding my network? How's it giving me new skills or exposure? Where could and not necessarily knowing where it's going to take you but trusting that it's, it's, it's taking you somewhere better than you are today. And it's all progressing in the right direction. Once you have your, your visions and values clear, so you have that compass. Yeah, it really then takes you on this really wonderful journey. We never quite know what it's going to the future is going to be, but we do know that we have more control over our actions today. That's definitely going if we're taking the right actions today, then that future is really going to be something worth looking forward to.

Kathi Burns  30:52  
Yeah, you can always talk and change direction, as long as you have the choices and you haven't sealed yourself down. So I love that your dad's very smart. I like that quote. Okay, so what's the I know you have something valuable to give to the listeners? What is it that you're going to offer the guests here?

Melitta Campbell  31:11  
I see a lot of business owners, as I mentioned at that start getting a bit of a pickle over their marketing, and overcomplicating or jumping into sooner focusing in on the tactics before they have a strategy and a plan.  I've put together a course. and it's a course that I now give away for free, because I really want them to have that understanding of what marketing really is that it's not just Google ads, that there's a lot more to it. But also it can be a lot simpler than they think. So they can start to and it's even got a marketing plan outline and a video walkthrough. So they really come away with a plan and more confidence to take those next steps in growing their business. So that's something that I would love to give access to your audience. I call it marketing made simple, and it's really 12 videos that will really guide you in setting up a solid foundation for your marketing and an understanding what it is and say so you have that confidence that you can go up, go ahead and do marketing that feels good. Oh, it's

Kathi Burns  32:17  
Oh, it's super valuable, too. I really appreciate you offering that because you know that it's tried tested and true tactics. So you can be confident by going ahead and downloading the latest gift. Knowing that she knows what she's talking about was out for that sort of jam. So go ahead and download it for sure. We'll have the link below the podcast so that you can go ahead and grab it. So is there any one thing that I should have asked you that, we've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that you want to say or anything that I should have asked you that we want to get into this podcast?

Melitta Campbell  32:49  
Gosh, we've really, we have covered a lot, haven't we. I think one thing is to, to give yourself permission to succeed on your own terms.  I'm an introvert, lots of people don't necessarily believe that these days.  I grew up labeled a shy girl. And for a long time, I allowed that label to hold me back.  I tried to operate in a way that just didn't suit my personality as putting out there trying to network and speak like an extrovert. And of course, it just didn't feel right, it really jarred at every opportunity. But then I did some self coaching and as part of the leadership program, and I came up with what I call my victory framework. It really broke down what felt good to me how I could progress, how I create my goals, and align with my vision and my values, and do things differently. And it's amazing once I started to do that, then I started to what I became really known for my network, which was something that I really struggled with networking and public speaking for a very long time. And now I've published a book called Shy Girls Guide to networking. I'm a TEDx speaker, coach. So it's really it gives me a lot of joy to to share that, that, that journey with people just to encourage more people that  there is never one way to do anything, you can absolutely do it your way. And if at any point it doesn't feel right. It doesn't say it feel smooth. Then you've got to take step back and ask yourself why could I be doing this differently? Does it have to be that way? Again, even go to your network or your coach and ask for support in developing your own system. But you you have my permission, you really absolutely can do things your own way.

Kathi Burns  34:38  
Yeah. And as a shy girl to the mastering networking girl, I think that you speak your truth there.  I had this conversation with someone over the weekend that you know when you're trying to fit into someone else's mold or you're trying to be what people think you should be like you're the shy girl Oh, I can't talk in or whatever. You're not yourself. So therefore you're not going to you'd be able to just jump  into what your what your true career will be and could be the possibilities are endless, because we're all unique. So I love the fact that you can take shy and now being the master networker, and the TEDx trainer, and all that good stuff. It's fantastic. Every one of us has something in a second do that. But I agree with you that the only way you can really come down to that is to embrace who you are.You can be shy and you can be a master networker, you can be outgoing, and learn how to listen. Here's all the different things that we can learn to really accentuate our what or what other people are saying that doesn't really fit in the mold. Do you need to do that? Well, just don't listen to them. I agree. And I think

Melitta Campbell  35:45  
I think as women, we get that a lot, don't we? I should do this, I must do that I have to do this, we feel very duty bound to a lot of things. And so we can, that goes against us a lot. So we just need to kind of extract ourselves a little bit and become sensitized to those words, and they hold hold on a minute, do I really need to do this? Do I really need to do it that way? And the answer is always no.

Kathi Burns  36:09  
Find your voice and speak your truth and be yourself. That's the most important thing. And for those of you ,we'll go back to the top of the interview, if you're looking to branch out, find what you can do naturally, that's very easy for you. Most importantly, something that you really love to do, and start there and start small and branch out and just see what happens because you'll be amazed at the metamorphosis that your career will take you along.  I think as a parent, I'm sure that you know, you don't get instructions on how to be a good parent, just like as an entrepreneur, your business is your baby. There really aren't that many solid blueprints for doing that. It's all an evolution of who you are and how you're going to create your own business. So that's the fun, isn't it?

Melitta Campbell  36:57  
Yeah, absolutely. As I say,  I'm the business coach, and I guide people in setting up their own business, but even I can't tell them, what that's going to look like, because I give them a framework so they can really dive in for themselves and take that logical structure. But every single business comes out different and so much better than they ever imagined. It's amazing to see them flourish and and that they start to expand that just what their what they believe is possible for them.  I think that's a real gift of entrepreneurship.

Kathi Burns  37:28  
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we will end on that because there is a true gift to being an entrepreneur and go ahead and follow your passion. If you want to learn about marketing, make sure to download the leaders download and her training, because it's videos, it's instructions that are tried, tested and true to help you market your business. So thank you so much for your generosity and your time lately. I really appreciate it. It's been fun talking.

Melitta Campbell  37:51  
Yeah, you're welcome, Kathi. I've really enjoyed it.

Kathi Burns  37:55  
See, until next time, gang. We'll see you later.

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