Why You've Got To Check Out Today's Episode:

  • Learn the steps to create an engaging online course.
  • Learn how to offer more in your courses or in client work, that can easily be learned.




[00:00:00] Kathi Burns:
Hi there. I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you, who wanna take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized Podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at thepodcast @organizedandenergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at Organized Energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now, let's get into the show.

Hi everyone. Today I'm speaking with Iggy Perillo. She is the founder of WSL Leadership. Iggy amplifies emotional intelligence so leaders can create thriving teams. She also elevates course creators into powerful educators. So if you're looking to create an online course, Iggy's the girl to tell you. What to do, how to do it, how to create your statement at the beginning of the course so that your students understand where they're going to go and create a roadmap for their success. So let's jump into it and talk to Iggy about this in further detail. Hi guys. I'm back and I'm with Iggy Perillo, and I am here to talk with Iggy about course creation mastery, how to become the most masterful course creator and get the people to take your information and run with it and use it. Iggy is an expert in this field and I wanna welcome Iggy to the show. Welcome Iggy thanks for being here.

[00:01:40] Iggy Perillo:
Thanks, Kathi. I'm happy to be here with you.

[00:01:42] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. I'm so excited to talk about this being a course creator myself. But let's get into a little bit of backstory on why you're doing what you're doing Iggy, so what's up? Where did you come from? Where have you been? Let's give us some backstory here.

[00:01:55] Iggy Perillo:
Sure. I basically come from the world that was summer camp at one time as a young person, summer camp counselor, and then took this leap to being an Outward Bound instructor. So playing outside for fun to changing lives through challenge and adventure. And then along the way, I got a teaching license, and along the way I got a master's degree in experiential education. So not just like we're playing outside and hey, you might learn something. We're gonna sculpt experiences so that you can learn and change and grow and actually transform in really human personal deep levels. So I was doing that work for, I'm actually still doing that work off and. And so through that work got it more and more into leadership development because leaders operate in this very dynamic, very changing, very experiential space. And then from there, moving into seeing the world through the pandemic.

Mainly a lot of folks, a lot of creators like us, a lot of people who expertise and a lot of wisdom to offer the world. Were like, Oh, I need to offer a course. I need to do it online. I need to offer a course. I need to do these. And looking at and seeing them and going to webinars, learning. I love learning, so I'm always attending, going to different things and seeing people deliver things. I'm like, Oh, you have so much skill. You have so much knowledge. You're a great presenter, you're a great speaker, but you're just not quite there as an educator. Oh, you missed it here a little bit. Oh, you should have set us up a little better over here. Oh, you could have crafted that a little bit better. Because people don't have those skills. They have knowledge, they have wisdom, they have expertise in their area. Being an educator isn't necessarily everyone's area of expertise. And you can learn those skills. You can have those too. And then whatever you deliver, whatever you have to say, the wisdom you have to offer gets into the minds of the people which you articulated beautifully, the intro. And then people can use it and absorb it and take your wisdom and integrate it and transform their lives with it. And so I help people bridge that little gap from their wisdom to being expert educator.

[00:03:41] Kathi Burns:
I think that's fantastic. So you started with summer camp, which I love summer camps, Outward Bound. So you still balance back to Outward Bound every once in a while to understand?

[00:03:50] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah. I was actually there last month helping some folks lead canoeing and backpacking, mountaineering expeditions in Northern Washington, in the North Cascades. So I was not in the field necessarily, but helping. Basically educate the instructors who were going out into the field and preparing them to be excellent educators in that type of very experiential, very personal, very, expansive and exciting environment.

[00:04:10] Kathi Burns:
That's so exciting. That's so cool that you do that. You've been doing that for years and now you're educating the educators. So talk to me about WSL Leadership. What's it stand for actually? What's the W, the S and the L?

[00:04:22] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, that stands for Work Sport, Life Leadership. So I help people in all those different areas. I love working people in the world of work. As leaders often are in work environments. I also love working with athletes. I have a close connection with my local roller derby league and also the roller derby leagues around the world. I work a lot. Somehow I've gotten connected to this community. I don't skate, but I'm a huge fan and love working with those athletes and other athletes. I've worked with other sports teams, and then life like we are human. We can communicate better. A lot of the same lessons apply whether you're leading a corporate environment or working as an athlete on a sport team, or just trying to communicate well with your life within your life, with your neighbors, with your friends, with your family. Or resolve conflict, like these same topics come up in all these different areas. And being a good educator, you could educate folks in any of those environments too. So it all intermingles.

[00:05:09] Kathi Burns:
And I think we all are experts in our own right. And knowing how to transfer our knowledge and get people to take action, I think is what it's really about when I'm recruiting the online courses. I love the fact that you're in the rollerskating league. I had a client who did that and it's such a blast.

[00:05:26] Iggy Perillo:
Oh, it's so fun. It's like the best sport. If you could ever catch a about anywhere, like they're actually all over the US. Almost every town has a league or a league nearby. I would just say go watch a roller derby bout. You will be excited, it'll be interesting. It's super athletic and super fun. It's really, yeah. Such a great sport. I love it.

[00:05:43] Kathi Burns:
And I love the outfits.

[00:05:44] Iggy Perillo:
Oh yeah. And there's outfits and there's like some, just enough silliness and some like very funny names. Like it's really great all around.

[00:05:51] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. It's really fun. It sounds like your career is just gone really good. You know really well in alignment with where you are now, but talk to me about a time where you just felt a little bit lost or you weren't quite sure what you were supposed to be doing next. What's the next step for Iggy?

[00:06:07] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah. I've been working sort of full time year round for Outward Bound for many years. So that meant summer seasons leading canoeing and backpacking expeditions in northern Minnesota, and then the winter's leading dog sled and ski expeditions in the same course area in the same space. So I've been doing that for maybe seven or so years. And so basically my off season was April and November. And so I had these sort of two months off a year and the rest of the time I was working. And I got to this point where I'm like, and I had worked up into sort of management type of positions or middle management, and I was supervising interns and I was training other staff and I was doing these different things. And eventually at a certain point I'm like thisfeeling a little stale. It's feeling a little rote, I've done this and new stuff is happening. It's a really dynamic environment. So it's not like things got boring. But I think I felt like I lost the energy for that. So I'm like what am I gonna do? I don't quite have the energy for this work, and then there's this part of my brain that's what has this trained me for? What has this entire, I've been doing that work for maybe, oh, probably 12 or 15 years by then, and specifically at least seven years. Summers and winters at Outward Bound, like back to back. And yeah, I was yeah, what can I do with all this knowledge? I know how to schedule people a little bit. I know how to train people to back up trailers. I know how to type news on a trailer. I have all these like different skills, like I guess I've been training staff, I've been doing all this stuff and I went through this process of thinking about where my 10 hours and hours have been spent. So Malcolm Gladwell does a find an okay job summarizing Andrew Erickson, right? Who was the guy who did the original research about peak performance and how we can become experts in our field by 10,000 hours of deliberate practice. Not just 10,000 hours of like willy nilly doing something. Like I could do a lot of things. We probably have all driven for 10,000 hours, yet we are nowhere near being professional drivers, right? Like we just willynilly do these things. So I was thinking about where I had focused my energy. Where I had training, gotten feedback, been coached, and it really was around leadership development.

So I'm like, Oh, and I like working with leaders. I like helping leaders lead. And I think in my, in that space, leaders were leading groups, but also educating groups at the same time, the instructors were leaders, so there's this great intermingling of ED being educators and being leaders at the same time. And so I took it a step back and was like I don't wanna be in the field or be in this remote space. What do I wanna do? Where do I wanna be doing it? And mainly who do I wanna be working with? And that's I think how I focused in on working with leaders and from there focus with like then adding back in leaders who are also educators on there. So I had this, yeah, this moment of transition from northern Minnesota, remote edge of basically I think we were about 10 miles from the Canadian border, like remote north, Northern, northern Minnesota. Mostly water between US and Canada. Like we could paddle there to living in Portland, Oregon where I am now, much more obviously urban environment and working with people who. Our leaders and are do leadering in dynamic and interesting environments and they encounter the same problems. How do we make decisions? How do we get things done? How do we get from here to there? Maybe not physically necessarily with our dogs over these lakes, but how do we get from here to there to produce our thing, to make our mark on the world to do our thing? So yeah, I there was definitely a lot of wrestling through that time of. What do I wanna be doing? Who do I wanna be doing it with? And then I ended up here. So here we are.

[00:09:08] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, and I think a lot of people right now are going through that same thing, and I think it's so brilliant to think about, okay, what are my skills? And then most importantly, who do I wanna work with to usethose skills with? I think that's, Super important. I know as a professional organizer, we always started as generalists and then we fine tuned down who we wanna work with, who is who, what clients bring us joy when we work with them. And if you, if you can really figure out, first off your skillset and then who you like to hang out with and who you like to help. Then you have joy in your career. And I think that this is great advice for anybody who's looking to switch, to jump out of maybe corporate or to jump out of an Outward Bound situation like you, which is a very rare scenario. Although I have a very close girlfriend that has taught repelling and that kind of thing.

[00:09:57] Iggy Perillo:
Oh yeah, Absolutely. Working, it's super fun. Yeah, but I think you're right though, with who do you wanna work with? Who are you excited to work with? Even if it's hard for you, like being excited to work with them, helps you and them both see progress, I think is a great place to start. Those people that characteristic that workplace, whatever it is. Great first step.

[00:10:17] Kathi Burns:
And they are gonna be a challenge. And that's the whole beauty of it. Because the people that you really wanna work with are the people who are gonna help you grow as well. . So think about that when you're first launching a gang out there.

[00:10:27] Iggy Perillo:
Oh yeah. And always ask for feedback. Anyone you work with, ask them for feedback every single time. What can I do better? What did you like about this? Anyway, whatever formulation of asking for feedback works for you, you're gonna grow so much faster, so much better, and serve people so much better down the road by like really at the end of every whatever session you have, leaving a minute, two minutes, five minutes, be like, What feedback do you have? And just let them talk. It's gonna sculpt your arc of your trajectory in amazing ways.

[00:10:54] Kathi Burns:
I love feedback. I tell people that all the time. It's good, bad, ugly. I don't care. Just let me know how you really feel about it. And you have to be open and receptive to that. So talk to me about, cuz you made the jump, talk to me about your first client that you landed that was not in the old world. Like what was your first leadership client and what happened with that?

[00:11:13] Iggy Perillo:
Actually it was the roller derby league, to be honest. Which is really funny because they had a volunteer fair and I was like, Oh, I should go to this volunteer fair. I've been watching, I'm a fan. I have all these skills working with actually youth and adults in leadership and team enviroments. I could probably help 'em out. It's a it's a nonprofit volunteer organization, so I'm like, Oh, I could help and I called 'em up or emailed or whatever, and the volunteer coordinator got back to me and was like, Oh, you missed the volunteer fair. Like I, missed the date or whatever, but what skills do you have? What can you do? I'm like I've like it been the world of Outward Bound. I've been helping teens and youth develop their leadership, like primarily and young adults. That's what I'd been doing at that exact moment. And then adding like training adults to be leaders. And they're like, Hey, next weekend we have a retreat for our junior team. Can you, They're infighting and getting cranky with each other and just struggling a little bit. Can you help out at this retreat next weekend? So I'm like, Sure. So basically within seven days I was volunteering at this retreat. And then from there basically became a league sponsor. Became a league, like got hired by the league to do other work. So I think they were my first client in it's really interesting multifaceted way. So I started with the junior. Then I worked with the adults and the adult team happens to be the reigning world champions right now. So I've been working with them for several years the travel team and then got into working with the league management. It's a really big league, so not every league has so many different teams in different programs. So then I did some leadership coaching for the. Basically the, not the board exactly, but the leadership team of the league, they serve, have a couple different managers running different programs and now I'm doing they recently hired me to do a leadership development course for their junior team skaters and then their junior team coaches and their junior team parents. Cause those are some complex relationships and how they act and interact is yeah, it could be smooth. It could be smooth, it could be not so smooth. So I'm gonna help make those communication that communication flow a little more easily for all of them.

[00:12:56] Kathi Burns:
Wow, that's pretty intensive. I can't even imagine doing a course that would handle all the aspects of all those different types of people.

[00:13:03] Iggy Perillo:
That's gonna be a big project. Yeah, it's a big project.

[00:13:06] Kathi Burns:
A big project. That's fantastic. Whenever we think about creating our own online course for this one set of people with this one specific message, that seems it's like rudimentary to you as far as basics. Get back to the basics.

[00:13:19] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it'll be super helpful for other leagues. I think there the hope is then to make this for my local league and then to be able to also offer it to other folks in other places, too.

[00:13:28] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, what a great backstory. So as you're creating these courses, how do you keep all that information organized? What's your method? I know you use Google Calendars, we can talk about that , but I love Google Calendar. So let's first start with that and then talk to me about the way that you might organize the information that you're going to put into a course.

[00:13:48] Iggy Perillo:
For sure. Yeah, I definitely had to start with Google Calendar because I'm a very much a scheduler and a time blocker offer. I'm a fan of Deep Work, Cal Newport's book. He wrote this book called Deep Work, which is about giving yourself time to, without interruption to really focus on something. And I find that's where I do a lot of my really goodwork is to be able to block out interruptions, block out phone calls, turn off, alerts and alarms and focus and so I can get that on my calendar. By, basically scheduling workday, scheduling work blocks sometimes. But I love, I, I have all the integrations into my calendar. It's Oh, you're gonna schedule something with me, boo. Like the Zoom link just shows up my calendar. Oh, you're gonna, we need to have a meeting about this or that. Here, let me send you my scheduler. It's gonna get on my calendar if it's not scheduled on my calendar. It's pretty rare it won't happen. I don't have my phone like ringer turned on. So if I need to schedule a phone call, I need to tell my calendar to tell me to turn on my ringer. Like it's it really helps me stay focused on the things I need to be doing and also give me the time to do the things, put my days off on there. Actually I'm not taking meetings this day. I'm actually gonna have a weekend. What is that? Like these different pieces that I did not always do well to be honest. Like I had to give myself into a process of, you get using my Google calendar better to not overschedule myself, and I think that's the danger.

[00:14:56] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, I love that. And I love the fact that you can have Google say, turn on your phone. I actually need to do that myself because I have my phone off all the time at all times. And yeah, so whenever you create a little chunk of time for a project, I'm just very curious. How long do you designate for a deep dive project? What do you block? How many hours?

[00:15:15] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, it depends. By now I have a rough estimate of how much time I need to do something or to develop something. Another app I use is reclaim.ai, and that is this beautiful integration with Google Calendar that you can tell it like, Hey, I have this project, it's gonna take me 15 hours to do. Here's my deadline, here's when I wanna start and don't, and make me times that are at least an hour long, but not more than two hours long between now and then. And then it'll fit those into your calendar and block off those days, and times in your calendar for you. So it's super handy. I'm big fan of that one just to help me cause I know this like I have a training upcoming next week where I'm, Oh, I'm actually working with the Derby Lake and another organization next week. So I have these two projects competing in my mind of a little bit this week. And so I know I need to spend maybe six or eight hours on one and maybe about 12 hours on the other, which is, that's like almost a full week, that's 20 hours of work I need to fit it in. I end up trying to, there's a way it's hard to explain exactly, because there's one way to do it to be like, Okay, here's my hour to work on the derby thing. I'm not gonna do anything else. And then if I get there, I'm like, Oh, but my brain's really on this other project, like maybe I need to work on another project and trade the hours back and forth. It gets messy. It's a whole train wreck. But I know my calendar is not gonna have, four other phone calls pop up and two other podcasts and two, like I think I know those other things aren't gonna happen cause I have that time already blocked out for these two projects during the week.

[00:16:36] Kathi Burns:
Oh, that's pretty amazing. That's incredible. I haven't heard of reclaimed ai, so I'm gonna definitely check that out. I made a little note about. Yeah and I'm a big proponent that if you know what you're supposed to do, you know what you didn't do. So like you say, you get into that block of time and you're like, I'm supposed to be working for the Derby, but wait, I'm not really there. So you can just swap it. But if it wasn't in the schedule to begin with, you couldn't swap it with anything. That's the beauty of the Google Calendar. Now, when it comes to organizing the course curriculum ,what do you use for that? Because I know everybody has different methods and I want everybody out there to hear what everybody uses because then you can choose your own. Cause again, I feel like there's no one way to do anything. So take whatever you hear within these podcasts and choose the one that works for you. So let's hear about your Iggy.

[00:17:23] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, I have a little curriculum planning guide that I start with. The goal of the thing, like my goal for this weekend is like a 20 minute talk about how coaches, skaters, and parents interact. That's like the goal for my next like little presentation. That's what it needs to be. And then I walk through sort of the beginning part of it, like how am I gonna introduce it, set it up the middle part, like what am I gonna have people do to practice or engage with this? And then the final part, what am I gonna give them that they're gonna take away? And then there's this little piece at the very end that is called transference. So we have the beginning, some activity, and then transference is what's the thing that they're gonna apply next time? So they've had this experience, what are they applying? Not just a goal, yeah, they had a talk. They learned about some stuff, but what are they gonna do? They, and that needs to be super succinct in a 20 minute talk, like maybe two or three things or maybe one thing for each group. I guess I have to think about it that way. What is the one thing they need to take away and use and do after this talk? Oh, I need to know as a coach that I need to lead the parents and lead the skaters, both. I'm like, if that's all I have, the coaches remember and Two ways I can do that great. That they're set up to do that next time. Oh wait, I need to lead some parents right now. Wait, I need to lead some skaters right now. So that transference piece is crucial for how the impact that I wanna deliver gets like lands and gets enacted and happens. So not just the goal, not just the steps to get there, but what is that thing that they're actively gonna do next time they're in the situation that I'm setting them?

[00:18:49] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, what is the action stuff they are to take? And I think oftentimes I even forget that, like that's one of my big mantras, but I forget it at the end. It just like thud and then, oh, I didn't really tell 'em what I wanted them to do next. It wasn't very clear about that. So being succinct and I think if you can make it, some kind of a cool little phrase helps too, but I'm not, that good at that kind of thing. But you probably have that nailed.

[00:19:13] Iggy Perillo:
It's tough. It's tough and it changes all the time for different groups or different organization parts. But I think you're right. Like we forget transference. We're like, Yeah, I gave you all that information. See ya. Good luck. And we're like high five.

[00:19:23] Kathi Burns:
My head is swimming, I have too much information. I don't even know what I was supposed to do next.

[00:19:28] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so just making it super clear when this happens, here's what I want you to do. Or here's like the next three, your two steps from there or here the framework that I want you to employ when this situation comes up again. Cause that situation will happen. Like the coaches are gonna coach, the skaters are gonna skate, the parents are gonna parent. Like it's, those things are gonna happen. And so I can just set them up with one next step in a, such a short talk. And then luckily for this, group, I have like much more training I get to do down the road. But this has to be the intro and get them rolling along a littlebit with that. But yeah, I still want them to do something. I don't wanna just. Wow. Good job. Thanks for talking and making it vaguely entertaining. Yep. I'm, it's gonna be vaguely entertaining and you have to do your part too.

[00:20:06] Kathi Burns:
Absolutely. Do you find that one thing is the goal for yourself, for your talks, having them take away one thing that they can take action on?

[00:20:14] Iggy Perillo:
Oh, or It depends. It really depends a little bit. I guess if I was talking later, I have a training that's just with the skaters to be leaders in their league, leaders in their team, so they're gonna have a lot more things to do. It's gonna be really focused, but having three different groups I'm talking to and one talk that are very distinct audiences. I think if they each have one, one to two things, it just, it depends a little bit that's gonna be a lot of things, right? Cause everyone else is gonna be sitting there being like, Okay, this isn't about me. Like taking a nap. And so I wanna keep them engaged throughout and understand how they interact with these different pieces. So most likely, for this, it's three different things, but it's just one thing per group a little bit.

[00:20:49] Kathi Burns:
And if you're, and you're focusing in, you're focusing in on one group, how many action steps would you recommend that we have, that we tell our people to do at the end of each talk?

[00:20:57] Iggy Perillo:
Up to three. I think more than three are. That's just a lot of situations to be prepared for. And if you have obviously a longer training, like if you're doing a whole course, like great, each lesson can have two or threetakeaways. Perfect. Then at the end of a course of 20 lessons, suddenly they've done 80 different things. It's amazing. You can compound those and add those up and make themprogressive and make them like scaffold onto each other. It's really powerful. And so like the, you give 'em the easy thing first and then the slightly harder thing that builds on the easy thing and the slightly harder thing. So they are still using those earlier steps and those earlier skills, but they're applying them in more nuanced and more interesting ways the whole time. So then they really get good at them over time. And that's the beauty of, I think a lot of online courses people create that they can be really long, but also they need to be really engaging and really thoughtful or else you lose people early on and people are out to lunch and we see this, we see people drop off, they pay for it, they don't show up. We host a session, you have a hundred signups and 25 people, click into the call or whatever. And people watch videos. People, take things in different ways. But I think that level of engagement, we don't wanna lose people, but you just giving them too much and overwhelming them. And so making it really simple step by step is really helpful. And that ties into not giving them 45 things to do, giving. Maybe three things to do, for an hour or 45 minute talk, if usually plenty of things.

[00:22:08] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. I just had an aha moment when you were saying that, I always have three action steps at the end of each chapter and the end of each module. What I thought is, what if I had that compiled into one sheet and they could see all the check marks and all the stuff that they done, Like it's actually physically see the progress that they've made throughout the course. I think that'd be like icing on the cake, right?

[00:22:28] Iggy Perillo:
Oh, absolutely. People are so motivated by seeing mastery develop, and that was Daniel Pink's book Drive. He talks about how when we see that we're mastering things, we're making progress, we're, we feel a ton of confidence. Oh yeah, When we tried to think back to remember when you didn't know that thing and it was super hard and terrible, and now it's not so hard and terrible, and in the future it could be really easy. We're like, Oh my gosh I'm on my way. I can do it. And so I think that, yeah, like exactly you're saying like a checklist of here's what you've done already, here's where you are now, and hey, there's a little bit more to do, but also. Remember how this was terrible and now you're getting better at it. That's showing people that they're growing and learning is really powerful for sure.

[00:23:03] Kathi Burns:
And maybe to unveil each step as you get to each step. Cause I'm, again thinking of the Google Doc with the check marks, right? I'll avail, the next curriculum, you'll see the next steps, but they aren't unveiled until you get there so not to get overwhelmed. But you just gave me great insight.

[00:23:18] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, and I think it helps at the beginning of the chapter, and this is the thing that you actually probably just saw my download that I have for folks to set people up to learn. Because I think sometimes we jump in, we're like, Hey, we're gonna do this really cool thing. Let's go. And people are like, Wait, what are we doing? What's happening? How are we getting there? And they, our learners like they're just trying to figure out what we're doing a little bit in a way that wastes energy when they could be focused on doing what we're doing together. And I think my analogy is like we jump into connecting the dots when the learner's wait, we're not doing a crossword right now. I didn't get it. Hold on. Like they just aren't quite on the same page. So setting people up for knowing Hey, in this session we're gonna cover these three things, and at the end I want you to be able to do this thing. Then you can go back to the beginning and be like, Oh, okay. Now I know what's happening, we're gonna do these things and at the end I'm gonna be able to do this thing. Great. Got it. Check like my brain is, can flow along with your flow. And there's different ways to be really nuance about how that flow works or how it goes if it's chronological or schematic or just different things. But I think that helps learners. I think so many educators skip that step and the learners are just a little bit swimming around what's happening next? Which is fine to have some anticipation, but if it. Wait, what's happening? At all? That's not so great for our learners.

[00:24:22] Kathi Burns: Yeah. Connected the dots versus hangman or whatever.

[00:24:25] Iggy Perillo: Yeah, what's even happening? They don't know. And it was obvious for us cause we're the learn, we're the educators, we have all this expertise, we have all this knowledge, and we have it in our brain. We're like, oh yeah, obviously we're gonna go chronologically through these things. Meanwhile, your learners like, Wait, there's an order to this stuff. Like our learners don't quite always know that what we know, like it's hard. That's the really difficult part of being an educator is assuming and putting ourselves in the place of that person who just doesn't know. When we've absorbed the knowledge and it's like intrinsic to us, it's so easy. Like when you ask me how I organize things, I'm like, I don't know. I just organize them, because it's intrinsic, I just do it and it's become a habit for me, and so to break myself outta my habits and explain it takes more effort because it's just become, we're a rote habit and we teach like that too. We teach Oh yeah, this is a habit for me is known. I'm an expert, but we're teaching learners who are not experts and who are very much beginners and I think we don't always appreciate how hard it is for them to learn and to put themselves in that learning role. And we, nor do we always set themselves them up well to be really effective learners. And so that's the beautiful download I have for you all.

[00:25:22] Kathi Burns:
Yes. Because 18 years or 20 years or whatever, it's. Experience trying to drip feed it or trying to see how did I actually get here? I think is the most the hardest thing to do when you're creating something for people to integrate into their life. Yeah. So let's talk about that download . What do you have? So you should download this cuz I just did it and it's really good.

[00:25:42] Iggy Perillo:
Yes. It's at wslleadership.com/educator and it is a guide to help people build what's called the roadmap statement. It's called the roadmap statement Guide. And the roadmap statement is one sentence basically, or sort of two state, two little pieces that you add at the beginning of your lesson, your session, your course to orient your learners, so your orient, so your learners know Oh, I get what our goal is as two parts as a goal, and the process a little bit.So you wanna tell your. Here's our goal for today. I'm gonna teach you how to, post on Instagram today, and here's our process. I'm gonna go through it step by step one, click at a time. Like people are like great. I know where we're going. I know how we're gonna get there. Great. I can follow along. Or, Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to. I'd be a confident speaker. We're gonna go through starting with your fears and then talking about how to use those fears to launch you into more, better speaking roles, like whatever it is for your expertise. The goal plus the process, and we talk about the goal pretty much. People sign up for the goal, they're signing up for Oh, I wanna be a better speaker. I wanna post on Instagram all the time. I wanna blah, blah. But we skip over the process. And that process is how our learners know what to expect and how they build a framework in their mind, and then they can attach all the pieces of knowledge that you're giving them to this framework and for the learners. From the learner's point of view, this makes it so much easier versus I have this apple over here. I have a couple oranges. 16 bananas and a watermelon. Am I making a fruit salad? Am I, what am I doing here? What's going on? And so it makes it really easy Hey, we're making fruit salad. I'm gonna give you five different fruits. You're like, Got it. Hand me the fruits. I'm ready for 'em. And so our learners are ready and oriented to do the thing that we want them to do, and to get to that transference at the end, it just smooths the way a lot easier. So the guide, roadmap statement guide that you can download is a little like a really fast, really short process for how to create that statement in a way that your learners are oriented so they can learn and grow and transform a lot more easily. So you're not fighting their mental energy with curio not curiosity, but like confusion in their minds.

[00:27:37] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. And I, and I love the roadmap because again, it is succinct and it's easy. I know exactly what you're trying to have me do, Iggy. I know how I'm gonna do it now, and I feel that I can do it.

[00:27:47] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, one sentence, you can do it. It's fast, it's easy.

[00:27:50] Kathi Burns:
But we skipped that step of Okay and I'm gonna show you how to do it. 1, 2, 3. This is the 1, 2, 3 step or, or ABC or however it is that we're gonna give them the information. So yeah, everybody download this. It's really quick. It's really easy. And I think it, it really got my brain stirring on possibly parts that I've missed within courses that I've created. It's Oh yeah, I should have probably done that.

[00:28:12] Iggy Perillo:
And you can go back and add it in or, add it on the front page or the, the title slide, whatever it is, be like, Hey, let me just edit this little thing in. Here's where we're going today. Okay, great. Now we're gonna get going. And it just, exactly, it's simple. It's easy to add in later if you forgot. And it really helps your learners so much. Like you would not believe how much your learners, like their anxiety level just decreases. Cause they're like, Okay, I get it. I get where we're going.

[00:28:35] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. Yeah. And then they, and then they actually take action, which, as influencers, educators we want people to be able to take in our information and actually use it, because that's why we're entrepreneurs. We're here to help people shift into something new and grow and blossom. That's why we're entrepreneurs probably.

[00:28:52] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah, absolutely. We have something to offer and it, I just want you people to offer it more easily in a way that people can learn and better.

[00:28:58] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. I love it. Okay one piece of advice that you've received, cuz you've given me a lot of really good advice today. What's one piece of advice that you've received in your life that still sticks in your mind? The thing that sticks.

[00:29:11] Iggy Perillo:
It goes back to the calendar, which is a little weird cause I'm attached to my Google calendar, but I still follow it. My dad said to get a calendar with really small boxes for every day. This is back in the paper calendar world, the like little calendar. So you couldn't write very much in every day, and that's what time management is. And I was like, that's true. And so on my Google calendar now, on my view, if there's more things where it has to say and more, I'm like, that's too much stuff on my day. If it says I need to be able to see everything in the box. I don't have like weak, debut. I have I think I have three week view, so like each box can hold six or eight, six things, maybe if I have more than that, I'm like, I'm overscheduled. Like I already know it. So I need to be able to visually see my, that's my limiting factor to not overschedule myself and to time manage myself, is to make sure I can not put too much in each day on my calendar based on my dad's advice.

[00:29:55] Kathi Burns:
That's really good advice. I remember my father always had the paper calendar, that he stuck in his shirt. And he wrote very small and that is such good advice. If you can't fit in the square, then you probably are over reaching, and it will set yourself up for being very disappointed or I didn't get anything done. Or like the Ivy Law success, using the Ivy system where you only have three to five things each day and that's it. You have the, you top, you do the first three, and if the other two didn't happen, they become the first three for the next day. So it keeps it very simple and again, it allows us to have our roadmap of what we've actually done. As when you do 15 different little bitsy things, it feels like you haven't done anything.

[00:30:39] Iggy Perillo:
Oh yeah. Our brain can't process like we switch so much. We spend so much energy switching between things like we're not actually not multitaskers. That's this myth of multitasking. We're just switching between things in a way that we don't pay close attention, which doesn't help us do great work if we're not paying close attention because we're spend so much time switching between things. So yeah, fewer things. I'm all about fewer things per day, and that includes phone calls, scheduled meetings, whatever, all the things that you have on your life in times unless it's a habit like brushing your teeth great, I don't need to put that on my calendar. If it's going for a run, yeah, I'm gonna block off time, I'm gonna put, things on my calendar that are meetings, schedule my deep work, my planning time, all these different things. And yeah, for me, not too many per day for. Yeah.

[00:31:16] Kathi Burns:
And chunking them together into different types of buckets, I called them umbrellaing. Each intention for each day. Having it say, Okay, this is my phone call day. This is when I'm gonna be chatty, Wednesday is my project day. I'm not gonna chat.

[00:31:29] Iggy Perillo:
And this is my weekend where I'm not gonna do any of those things. It's okay to schedule yourself to not do the work things. Cause I think this is th other challenge of being an entrepreneur. Like we always have ideas, we always have creating things and like I do take notes on the weekend, I get a great idea, I'm gonna write it down, but I'm not gonna go sit and pursue, writing outlying a whole article that day. I'll get enough notes to get back to that later. You need your diffuse mode brain to have some time to just do other things or not be focus, focus, focus.

[00:31:54] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, I totally agree. And between, switching tasks, I think they figured out at 17 and a half minutes to swap a task. Yeah. 17 and a half minutes it takes to get back to where you were when you jumped off the boat and went onto something else. Even just answering a phone call. You answer a phone call, you have a chit chat 17 and a half minutes before you can get back into the project of which you were thinking about to begin with. Cuz you're still thinking about the conversation.

[00:32:19] Iggy Perillo:
I felt that. I felt that a hundred percent. I believe it. Like I have definitely felt okay, wait, where was I? What was I doing? I had that great idea. I'm sure, obviously I had so many great ideas. Where did they go? Every time.

[00:32:30] Kathi Burns:
Where did it go? Where did those ideas go? I say that to myself all the time. It was there. This has been fantastic. Is there anything that we should have talked about that we haven't covered yet? I just wanna say that at the end in case I forgot something that was super important that you wanted to tell the gang.

[00:32:46] Iggy Perillo:
I don't think I have anything super important, but I would be curious to hear what you are taking away from today. What's the top thing that you're taking away from?

[00:32:55] Kathi Burns:
I love the fact that I always tell them what I'm gonna tell 'em, but actually putting it into how am I going to show you this? What's the avenue that I'm going to use for this? Is it gonna be, you're gonna watch these videos, you're gonna do this check sheet? What is it? How are you going to take the information into your body or into your brain that I give to you. So I think that's very important in anything that I'm teaching. So that's my big takeaway is the steps or the procedure or the process. Yeah, the process. Cuz I'm good at saying what I'm gonna say. I got that when that was in brain. Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em and then tell it to 'em again. So now it's tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em and then tell them how you're going to have them use it and how it's going to flow so that they have that anticipation. And I think that will increase the learning. So that's my big takeaway. I love it and I love the roadmap. So everybody that's listening, go ahead and click the download. And on top of that, you'll get some good, more good tips from Iggy as she progresses in her world and comes up with more things that she's learned and taught about leadership. So I really appreciate your time, Iggy, and I wish you much success. I gotta go find my client and watch one of her derby's cuz it's a blast.

[00:34:10] Iggy Perillo:
Oh yeah. It's so great. Go find it. Go find It is out there on if you can't find it locally, it's definitely on Twitch or on YouTube. It's out there.

[00:34:17] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. It's a blast. So check out that too. But thanks so much for your time and everybody go ahead. If you're thinking about creating a course, even if you're just doing a talk, even if you're just teaching a client use these processes, I think it's gonna be brilliant. I can think actually another application is at the beginning of a client session. What are we gonna talk about today? And this is the way that we're going, that I'm going to show you how to implement it. These will be the steps that you learned today. I think that's gonna be huge.

[00:34:44] Iggy Perillo:
Yeah. Or with client work. We're gonna start with you as a person, then talk about your closest relationships and further relationships. There are just lots of ways to structure that so people's brains follow along. Great. I'm so excited for you to use that. I'm so happy for you.

[00:34:56] Kathi Burns:
Thank you so much, Iggy. I really appreciate your time and gang will see you next week. And make sure to download the roadmap. Thanks, Iggy.

[00:35:04] Iggy Perillo:
Thanks. Bye-bye.

[00:35:05] Kathi Burns:

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you wanna hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you to meet. Have a stellar day.

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