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Kathi Burns  0:04  
Hi there, I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you who want to take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at organizing energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now let's get into the show. Hi, I'm back and I am with Dorothy Breininger my friend. Dorothy is known as the most innovative Professional Organizer and she fearlessly endeavors to help people get organized. She is a producer of the hoarder show, which you probably know her on that. But she has a new book,  Stuff Your Face or Face Your Stuff, which I think is fantastic. She's also right now just launched your professional boss organizers program. So if you're interested in becoming a professional organizer, you need to hang out with her too. Dorothy is you know, such a well known expert. She's been on everything Dr. Phil, you, you name it. I mean, I could go on and on about that. But you can read her little bio. She is the girl to know and I am just pleased and honored that she's here. So thank you, Dorothy for giving me your time and being on this show.

Dorothy the Organizer  1:35  
Oh, I'm a definite yes, for you. We go so far back Kathi. You know, I see Master Your Muck back there. And I remember when you were writing that, so we I'm happy to be here. Are you kidding?

Kathi Burns  1:49  
I love it. Love it. Okay, so you have done many things in your lifetime. Right? So what did you do before you became a professional organizer?

Dorothy the Organizer  1:59  
Oh, you sneaky dog you actually I was working at a university, first at Northeastern University in Boston. And then I was working at UCLA. And at both times, I was working as an executive assistant to the dean. And that's a key part into how I became a professional organizer.

Kathi Burns  2:18  
Yeah, absolutely. You have to be super organized to keep the Deans under control, I'm sure.

Dorothy the Organizer  2:23  
Absolutely.

Kathi Burns  2:25  
Oh, that's great. So, um, what what do you feel is the main challenge that you're solving right now for clients? I mean, you've been so many iterations of what you do with your career. And right now, what are you focusing on helping your clients solve?

Dorothy the Organizer  2:43  
I think Kathi, you know, everybody calls for professional organizing. That's what they're calling or emailing about. And it's never about the stuff. It's always about something else that's going on. And but so the challenge is just really for me to understand them. Right? To leave them feeling understood. Yeah, we do the organizing, but if people don't feel understood, you know, that stuff will keep coming back up again, whether you know, whether it's hoarding or whether it's depression, or whether it's, you know, feeling of poor mental health or weight gain or a divorce, or losing a job, you know, I could go on and on about what, what it is. It's never about the stuff. It's always about this other thing. And so the challenge that people need they want they're asking for, it's not even a challenge. It's just they are desperately wanting to be understood, especially in a time of chaos.

Kathi Burns  3:45  
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the thing is, is if we know if we can understand them, we can mirror back to them what they're feeling, because oftentimes, they're so stuck in the muck of their stuff that they don't even understand what's happening in my life. And we can mirror it back to them and say, Well, this is a way that I see so well, that Yeah, it's true. And yeah, we can't see what we most need to see oftentimes. So I think our profession that's what we do.

Dorothy the Organizer  4:16  
That's and that's, you know, I know, earlier, we were talking about special gifts, you know, and what, what it is we have as a special gift, and that is one of them is is to clearly see these things that go on, create this chaos, which can turn to clutter in our minds or bodies or, you know, in our space, right, so even something like an earthquake from 1992 People are still bringing it up, as you know, in issue that has been a scary thing and they've not been able to get their life back since then. Fear of Flying or you know, an extraordinary divorce. You know, for me, I've had a lot of these experiences. So when you say mirror back, it's not only mirroring Kathi, it's I have had these experiences, I don't know if I want to call them blessed to have all of these really tragic circumstances that have occurred in my life. But I've been able to use those as a way to relate to my clients. And I think that's one of the valuable keys about being an entrepreneur, and entrepreneur is to really just take those experiences and utilize them to connect with clients.

Kathi Burns  5:33  
Mm hmm. I totally agree. And we are own best teachers. So oftentimes what, what I find in the field, and you probably find this as well, that we're teaching kind of what we need to be reminded about as well. And it's funny how the universe works that way. For us, especially in our profession.

Dorothy the Organizer  5:51  
Yeah, either what we need to be reminded about currently, or what we've just gone through, for example, when my sister, Pat passed away, she's a young woman when she passed away a few years ago. And one of the things she wanted to do was she said, Yep, organizing specialty, what can I do for you? Yes, I can help organize medications, doctor visits, all of that. But you know, what about for your, what, for the rest of your life? And she said, You know, I always wanted to see the Pope. And I thought, okay, that's an organizing gig I've not done, right, that's how do I take on that possibility of really doing something extravagant, big, huge for somebody else. And I talked to so many people and wrote letters, and by golly, God only did she see the Pope. But we were in Rome, in Vatican City. And in the first row, she was terminally ill. But she met the Pope and shook hands with him. And for three hours, she did not have the answer, right. And it was such an amazing thing, that out of organization, and the desire to really find what somebody wants in their life and understanding them, we can make a whole lot happen. Well, people can do it in any profession.

Kathi Burns  7:06  
Yeah, absolutely. We can all do it, we can all do it. And we all have connections of connections of connections that can get the person to where they want to go, even if we have no idea. Well, you You've done so much, and you have so many irons in the fire at all times. Every time I look. And you know, see what Dorothy's up to I'm like, Oh, my gosh, oh, she can do this. So what do you do whenever you're starting to feel burnout and overwhelmed? What's your remedy for yourself as an entrepreneur?

Dorothy the Organizer  7:37  
Yeah, well, there's the there's the remedy that I need sort of in a week or in a month, you know, just every, every week or every month, I need a remedy. And then I also need it for the bigger picture when it's completely out of whack, right? So when I need something just in a temporary mode, the first thing I do is I go to bed at eight o'clock, PM. And you know, I can stay up till 12 or one o'clock with the best of you. But I shifted and I make myself go to bed and everybody that I talked to is no that's ridiculous. How terrible would be awful. And there I am, you know, just decompressing. No, no screen time, no screen time, I can meditate. I can read. I can do crossword puzzles, clean up anything but screen. And that, and I fall asleep around 10. And then I'm up at four 430. And then at that time, I can meditate and kind of put right what has been out of whack for the week or the month. However, yeah, so it's bedtime. For me. That's what it is. You go to bed early, you're going to be you know, inspired and ready, again, to readjust what you thought you had to do the next day, which isn't, it isn't what we have to do if you just take a moment to breathe. And it's that same kind of behavior or that same kind of remedy that I use when life is overwhelming. So when I did have a divorce when my sister was dying, you know, and I had to commute back and forth. I had to cancel all of my speaking gigs I had to do all these things. It's the same as going to bed at eight o'clock except it's on a bigger scale. It's like stopping work for about a week putting everybody on alert to say I have to regroup and I bring out the calendar and I just put in all that self care time. Yeah, morning walks get back entered back in again, you know meditations brought back up again. Just level it back out and get healthy and then I can read you know, regroup and go again.

Kathi Burns  9:52  
I love that you know put yourself in timeout say done. Put yourself in timeout do you get up there Morning at 430 usually, is that your?

Dorothy the Organizer  10:02  
No, no, I'm a six. I'm a six o'clock person, sometimes seven o'clock person. But if if I go to bed at eight o'clock usually I'm up, you know because,

Kathi Burns  10:13  
 yeah

Dorothy the Organizer  10:15  
I've slept but but it's the good sleep and then I get that extra time in the morning, it's there, it's just automatically there because I went to bed early. Now it's there for me to really look at how I need to shift and manage the overwhelm.

Kathi Burns  10:30  
I love it, I love it. So if you had to give a piece of advice or an hour, an organizing hack to entrepreneurs who just they're stuck in it, and they feel like they're not free anymore, you know, they're just like, at the grindstone beating themselves up overwhelmed not they forgot even why they forgot their why they started their business, do you have an organizing hack that you would tell them? Or something that you would little sneaky trick?

Dorothy the Organizer  10:55  
Well, what I like to do, and I do this with myself, I say, okay, they're like, yes, yes, I do have an hack. 3 different stages of life, we have three different stages of organizing, and it applies to business as well. So you know, the first part of business is all about collecting, you know, we're trying to get our clients, we're trying to collect money, we're trying to collect ideas, we're trying to do as many courses as we can. So that's what that first stage of business is. And then we move into managing all of that. And email, how much do we really want to manage and get, there's so much but we get tired in that management stage. Right? So that's where, you know, moving into the reducing stage, or the very focused stage is what I consider, the sooner that you can get into that stage, which is where I'm at, I'm guessing you're at because we come very focused, becomes really clear what our gifts are. And you know what it is we want to do, we understand our own needs for time better. You know, we know that we can charge more, because of our long experience with less work. I mean, there's such an advantage to being able to focus and reduce, you know, that flood that's coming at us from what we built, and then where we are. So sometimes we just need to have that those three stages, we need to just look at it even when we're in the early stages of being an entrepreneur, you know, am I still building what I should be managing? Am I still taking more courses, I still adding more clients? Do I really need all that stuff? Or do I just need to manage it? Or do I even need to reduce and focus and by looking at which stage you want to be in you go in and out of those stages? Right?

Kathi Burns  12:57  
Yeah and recognizing what stage you're in also definitely helps you. And that's so sync, I just love that. So you're either collecting, right? And things all to you, or you're managing all the crap, so to speak, that you brought to you or within you reducing and saying I don't want to manage that. I don't want to imagine the delegate delegate delegate. Right. But we're just eliminated all the way together.

Dorothy the Organizer  13:23  
Yeah. Because, you know, we, many of us, in this industry and others, we say, Okay, I'm just going to take what I get in the beginning, anything that comes to me, I'll take it, I'll try it, I'll do it. I know I did that. And then I was you know, doing a porter shows and I was doing, you know, all sorts of organizing in the field and speaking gigs. And, and, and, and if you know which of these things become most important, reduce it again, back to where it needs to focus, where to focus.

Kathi Burns  13:53  
Brilliant, brilliant, that's good advice for all of you people out there who are entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs right now. And you're just feeling like you're stuck. Figure out what phase you're in. I love that. Okay, so what's the one lesson in all your careers? I call it careers as a professional organizers? You so many iterations? What's the lesson that this business has taught you?

Dorothy the Organizer  14:22  
Yeah, I'm going to think about that, you know, I wrote a few things down. But in terms of the lesson for all of this is the intuition that I would ignore, that I would ignore. The lesson is that and that's where I think I was in those three stages when you get to reducing or focusing, focusing did I say that repetitively, repetitively, on the one maybe two things. The lesson is, I have oh, you know what, I have another one after this too. Yeah, one more after this, but just getting focused on the one or two things because I was spread so thin, you know, had satellite offices, it just so many things going on and all of them were working. But it was workaholism that allowed it all to stay attacks, which makes no room for healthy body makes no room for healthy relationships, all of that. So, you know, that's the lesson is get really focused on on what it is the one or two things at a time that you want to be doing. And then well, I'll just I'll just leave that one for now. Yeah, I'll leave that one for right now. And I have I'll have another one shortly. People okay. Yeah. Wait, I could do it right now.  Okay. So the other one is, um, I was always a lone ranger. You know, and because I'm organized, you know, and I'm determined and have a certain level of drive, I can do just about anything by myself, including changing a tire. And that's, again, I've had to learn everything the hard way, I've had to make a lot of apologies to some of my own colleagues. But you know, I wasn't up for partnering and learning and doing things with other organizers, or with other business partners. And that has completely changed. And it's so much better.

Kathi Burns  16:26  
Yeah, it's better with others. Uh, you know, I have that same kind of obstacle myself is wanting to be the solopreneur or the autonomous person that doesn't need anybody to do anything. And it doesn't work that well. So I'm in the process of learning that as well. And that's part of the reason why I'm doing the podcast, kind of collaborate and get juice from other people in and connect to other people as well. I learned that I, I'm not alone, because everything that's been happening on this podcast is things that have happened to me, it's they everything that happens to us generally is happening to other people as well. And so there's a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of database and input that we can support. Right?  Yeah. So what did you do to overcome being a lone ranger? I want to know this. Well, how did you How do you break out of that, Dorothy?

Dorothy the Organizer  17:15  
Yeah, yeah, this one was a tough one. Because when you have it all like that, somebody is gonna help pry it open. And if somebody else isn't helping you pry it open, you've got to do it for yourself. So I made a decision that I was going to share my company, I was going to share the financial success, share in the decision making, share it so I, I brought in a lot of people to have a CEO of my company, instead of me being the CEO, the founder, the owner, the organizer. Come on, Dorothy stop, it brought somebody in to do that. So you know, yes, I have an assistant, I've always had one. But this one is in the realm of doing it for the business, not just for Dorothy. So it's that the the whole thing to overcome, it was for me to open up and be you know, say, I will give it here, here, I have built 25 years of organizing, I will give you a piece of what I have, if you will work with me. And you know, that was so that's having to be quite humbling, that is quite humbling to do that.

Kathi Burns  18:33  
It is absolutely and you just like with clients who like let go, let go, let go. And they're like, No, I can't let go. And then once you start letting go, you're like, take more, have more. It's this is wonderful. I'm so free.

Dorothy the Organizer  18:50  
 See, organizing is everything.

Kathi Burns  18:53  
Yeah, letting go some muscle and letting go control and sharing. I'm actually in the process of doing that as well with my company is sharing, sharing the proceeds sharing the business. We don't have to be alone. Most we just like to be sometimes but you know, but  in the phase again of the releasing and focusing on what makes us happy now, right? It's not the same as it did probably 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 years ago. Totally different thing. Right?

Dorothy the Organizer  19:22  
Well, and you know what, I am 58 years old. And that whole thing about not sharing, I actually learned from my mother when I was 14. And I remember when I learned how to not share and I was a gymnast, and you know, I would win a lot of the gymnastics meet. I had my competitor she won. We're both really really good and always competed. She was on another team in high school. And one time between the events she and I go back there and we started doing teaching other, each other some tumbling moves that we thought we saw in the Olympics, and my mother caught me doing that If you don't share that kind of stuff, you'll never win if you share that carry that around for all these years. I know she was trying to protect me on the one hand, but it didn't them wrong advice.

Kathi Burns  20:12  
Yeah, it's not it's the non enough syndrome. Right? So Oh, boy. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you that's a good one to come over, come over, come down for sure. Yeah, I wish I knew where I got mine. But you know, I'll do some exploring on them.

Dorothy the Organizer  20:26  
Call me I'll let you know.

Kathi Burns  20:29  
So what's the best piece of advice that you would have for entrepreneurs who want to create more freedom within their business?

Dorothy the Organizer  20:36  
Yeah, I, this is my favorite one of my favorite questions, anyway, because, for me, I like to build business around personal my personal values. So my advice is to decide, you know, what are these areas of life, you know, we all know areas of life, you know, things like family, or making money or going back to school, or spirituality, or traveling or public speaking? Whatever. Yeah, whatever that is that you want for yourself, on a personal level. So for me, I've always had, I had a few, you know, a different times one, it was always making money. Now, it's health, and travel. Those are the two things that personally I want. So if I take personally what I want, and I move that into my business goals, and say, I want to do business as a woman who travels, and as a healthy woman who travels, now I have my, my focus, I have my understanding that when I travel, I'm always going to be carrying a laptop, I'm going to be looking ahead for clients. Like, you know, when I went to Belize with my husband, in October, I looked ahead, you know, got the clients in place, so that I was organizing while I was there. And I was teaching from there back to my students here in the US. So for me, it's picking one or two of the things you value personally, and designing it into your business.

Kathi Burns  22:17  
And they can all be designed anything could be designed into your business because guess what, we're entrepreneurs, we can do whatever the heck we want. As long as this isn't to mean first, you know? I say my boss is so mean.

Dorothy the Organizer  22:30  
You know, I know it's been this way forever. 25 years same old story. Work Dorothy work.

Kathi Burns  22:38  
I love Belize so boy, what a good what a good idea to go to Belize in organized at the same time. Thank God for zoom. You know, we can have we do a lot of stuff. Now. That's been a huge blessing for all of us.

Dorothy the Organizer  22:51  
Yeah, yeah. Every one of our businesses can benefit from using Zoom.

Kathi Burns  22:56  
Absolutely. Okay, so now you have shifted into a new thing where you're gonna help newbies become organizers. I'm so excited about that. So tell me a little bit about your training program and what you're doing.

Dorothy the Organizer  23:11  
I will and that also happens to be you know, one of the valuable resources What do you call it? The V? The VP?

Kathi Burns  23:18  
Yeah, V. VFR valuable free resource.

Dorothy the Organizer  23:22  
Yeah. So I, you know, that ties into the same thing, Kathy, but, you know, when I look back, it's been 25 years of professional organizing. And I've designed my own systems. You know, I also belong to a lot of groups like naipo, which I love, I'm still a member and support, and the ICD, still a member and still support. But you know, becoming a boss organizer is completely different, because it's this personality. And if you like this personality, then you would want to train with me. If you don't, then you wouldn't want to train with me. So there's a certain style and certain things that I teach that are different completely from, you know, where we all might have gotten our education in the past. So it's definitely not a competitive thing. It's an additive thing. And it's wonderful. We've got 500 Boss organizers, slated to 1000 this year, and the community is huge. Many of the organizers who get certified also come on the hoarders television show with me when I'm doing the show. You have to be certified to do that. So the the community is interesting. And because Kathi, there was such a shift from well, people were losing their jobs. You know, four 40 million people became unemployed last year because they walked off their jobs. So it's one of the two right so people were are in what's called the Great resignation. And they're resigning so that they can go to something else and the something else lives under the umbrella of professional organizing. So what we do is take your talent, your talent, your talent, and turn it into professional organizing for you. So that's, that's what it is. It's, it's pretty cool.

Kathi Burns  25:11  
And it's a wonderful career, it's been so rewarding for all of us that are doing it. So, yeah. So what is the valuable free resource, then that that download?

Dorothy the Organizer  25:21  
Yeah, so everyone can we do this all year long. So it doesn't matter when you decide to join us or not, but go to boss organizer.com. And we have a 90 minute 90 minute session that you can come to to learn whether or not you want to become a professional organizer, and also learn how to do some organizing tips and tricks. Plus, we have holiday events that are free to the public. So we give away a lot of content. I know you do that as well. But you know, just so that people you out there can understand whether you want to become a professional organizer, what it takes what you could potentially make, although we can't discuss fees and things we can share with you how you can use a formula to come up with your own. So that that is what it's all about. We have a lot of people who are real estate agents and nurses and dental hygienists, and teachers who all have been taking this on. So yeah, it's perfect for any business. Yeah.

Kathi Burns  26:23  
Okay, so what is the one question my friend that I should have asked you that I did not? I mean, I could talk to you forever. But tell me something good.

Dorothy the Organizer  26:32  
Tell me something good. And I think I think what the question is, is what's in your gut?

Kathi Burns  26:45  
So, what's in your gut?

Dorothy the Organizer  26:48  
So what's in your gut is the question that means, you know, what are you feeling like, what is it you really want to be doing? It ties into all the other questions that you asked, but if you're concerned that you're going down the right path, or wrong path? If whatever it is, what is your gut telling you? Should you have your mother move in with you or not? Do you really want to stay married to that person, you know, whatever these things are? What is in your gut. So you take what you think in your gut, you really truly want to marry that person, divorce that person, you send it to your heart, and you know your heart or you know, you're happy. That's what you use instead of your brain. Don't use your brain to make those decisions go to your gut first and your heart, whether it's business or personal. And I mean, I know you asked me, What is it the what's the question, but I guess I'm turning it around and putting it out to your listeners and viewers. What's the question? Check with your gut?

Kathi Burns  27:43  
Yeah, I love that. That's, we can't go wrong if we check with our gut and our heart. You know, because our gut could be saying fleeing our heart could be seen, but but I really want to do it. Right. So yeah, both of those. Both of those checkpoints are the perfect way to go. Well, I hope that you have great success.  I know that you're going to have great success with your school and your trainees. And I know your people are having lots of fun dancing around. So make sure that you download and join in to one of Dorothy's free sessions so that you can check out do you want to be a professional organizer? I'll tell you what, it's a great career. So thank you, everyone, for joining us. And thanks so much, Dorothy.

Dorothy the Organizer  28:25  
Thank you. Thanks, Kathi.

Kathi Burns  28:34  
Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you want to hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you, to me have a stellar day.