Why You've Got To Check Out Today's Episode:

  • Learn why asking for help and delegating can help you free up your time to invest in the growth of your business.
  • Discover the four most valuable ways you can use your podcast.
    Learn the secrets about starting a podcast.

Resources:

More...

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“Being able to say yes, it is okay to ask for help. You are also very powerful at the same time and asking for help sort of makes you even more powerful. That is really the biggest personal development that I've learned from having my own business."

Transcript:


Kathi Burns  0:04  
Hi there, I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you who want to take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at organize energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now let's get into the show. Okay, today I am here with Andrea Klunder and I'm excited to speak with her. You guys are gonna have a lot because she's a multifaceted businesswoman, she teaches people the best way to podcast. So we're gonna jump right into it and welcome Andrea to the show.

Andrea Klunder  1:02  
Thank you so much for having me, Kathi. I'm really happy to be here and I love looking out your window as we speak.

Kathi Burns  1:08  
Thank you. Yes, it is sunny here in San Diego. It is 62 degrees. Sorry. What are you 21 or something?

Andrea Klunder  1:17  
I'm not sure what the temperature is today. It's been fluctuating between like 60 something and 20 something on a daily basis. So it's a little chaotic right now.

Kathi Burns  1:27  
I'm from Ohio. And that's what I used to happen in spring. It's like, no wonder we got colds all the time. Because you know, hot, cold, hot, cold. You know, what are we supposed to wear? I don't know. Every day is a new day in Michigan and Chicago and Ohio. Anyhow, Okay, on to this stuff. So talk to me a little bit Andrea, tell us the background story of what you used to do before what you were doing now. What led you into this new career?

Andrea Klunder  1:56  
I started my entrepreneurial journey coming out of nonprofit arts administration. I got this inkling through a very convoluted story that I needed to try to do something myself, I didn't want to continue to try to work my way not up the corporate ladder, but off up the nonprofit ladder, so to speak. I ventured out and I started my own yoga studio, I had been teaching yoga and meditation on the side, just as kind of like a fun thing to do. That was part of my passion of what I was interested in. I learned pretty quickly that you are very challenged to make a sustainable full time income as an independent yoga teacher bouncing around from studio to studio gym to gym. So I brilliantly thought, I'll start my own studio. And that's how I will be successful. But guess what? A storefront Yoga Studio in a competitive market, like Chicago, also a very difficult business model to make successful and sustainable. I had that business for about five years. And at the end of five years, I had to close that business, I was out of money. I was exhausted, I was overwhelmed, I was burnt out, I could see what it would take to turn things around and possibly make it successful. But I didn't have it in me, I didn't have the resources.  I was like I just can't do this. So I held on to the end of my commercial lease, and then shut it down and promptly entered in my mid to late 30s. The first experience of depression that I had ever really, truly experienced. There I was, I was broke. I was exhausted. I was depressed. I felt like an impostor. Because, you know, people would say, Oh, this is my friend Andrea and she is an entrepreneur. I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't have a business, or people would ask me, what do you do? I couldn't say that I was a yoga studio owner anymore. I couldn't say that I was a business owner. I didn't know what I did or what I wanted to do.  I had friends that said you have so many skills, you could probably just start looking for a job and you tried the entrepreneur thing. It didn't work out. You can you can go back to working in nonprofit. I was like, nope.

I don't I understand I appreciate what you're trying to do. I don't think that's for me. So I just spent some time kind of sitting with that. One thing, there was probably only one thing that was interesting to me at that time, and that was that I had been listening to a lot of podcasts. So during my yoga business clients would ask me if I had ever considered starting a yoga podcast because I feel like at that time, in the where were we like around 2010/2011. Not a ton of people were into podcasts yet at that point, it was still kind of this like fringe thing. The first client who ever asked me if I would start a yoga podcast, I didn't even know what a podcast was at that point. I had clients and friends who were giving me podcasts to listen to, and I had started listening to not only yoga and meditation podcasts, but entrepreneurial podcasts, lifestyle podcasts, holistic living podcasts, all these different ones. I kept thinking to myself that it was something that I was attracted to. But I just didn't have time when I was trying to run the other business.  I couldn't clearly see how starting a podcast fit into my business model or into my marketing strategy, like I just couldn't see it. Now here I was, and I had all the time in the world. And I thought, maybe I can start a podcast. I didn't, I still didn't know how that was going to be a business, or how that was going to help me earn an income. I just needed to put one foot in front of the other. I thought this is something small, that I can probably do without a lot of startup investment. Because every business idea I had, I didn't have any money left. So I was like, how am I going to start a business when I have no capital. I thought, this is something small, it's not going to take that much investment. I had a background, my bachelor's degree was in broadcast communication and media production. Of course, that was in the 90s. and technology in the 90s was much different than it is now. I still had a pretty steep technology learning curve to overcome. But I at least knew the theory behind it. I knew how to do an interview, I knew how to craft a narrative, I knew how to script, an intro and an outro. All the rest of the stuff I could kind of figure it out. So I launched that very first show, which still exists today. It's called the creative impostor and that came out of this feeling of feeling like a fraud and feeling like a fake and like, looking at all these creative people that I knew in my life and in the world around me who were doing these amazing things. I would look at them. I would say, why are they so confident all the time? Like, how do they know that they're going to be successful in whatever it is that they're doing? Do they ever feel like a fake? Do they ever feel like an imposter and that was sort of how that idea of the creative imposter started because over time, spoiler alert, I found out that most of us who are highly ambitious, talented, skillful, who are trying to do something different, trying to think outside the box and create our own way, at one time or another, most of us are going to feel that way. Or we're going to have those voices of self doubt. We started having these conversations about like, how does that show up for you? What do you do when that happens? How do you keep moving forward? What are your inner and outer resources? And then from there, it became a business because people started asking me, I would like to start a podcast. Can you help me? I was like, Yeah, sure. And then I realized I could charge money for it. That's how that evolution happened.

Kathi Burns  8:25  
And there's your business. A couple of things that you said your story was very interesting to me, as a business owner is I've also risen from the ashes from a failed business before. One thing that I know for a fact is that if you wouldn't have had your yoga studio, you would not have had someone saying, hey, what do you start a podcast about yoga? Like, you wouldn't have had someone on your shoulder they're going podcasts, podcasts, podcasts. What I think that's interesting. Didn't you have multiple people say that to you over the years, right? The word podcast, and then, you know, keeps knocking on your shoulder podcasts, podcasts, and then oh, maybe I should start a podcast.

Andrea Klunder  9:07  
It's the power of suggestion with me. It's like, you should start a podcast. Can you help me start my own podcast? I've now started my podcast and I don't want to edit it. Can you help me edit my podcast? It's always like, one, one step after another of somebody suggests something to me. I don't know how to do that thing. But it sounds interesting. So I say let me figure out how to do that thing.

Kathi Burns  9:32  
That's the basic path of an entrepreneur.  I rose from the ashes. I had no money to start this businesses as well. I had $49. I bought some business cards, made some flyers and went out there and got it. You got to start a podcast, you got whatever equipment you could scrape up at the time, right? And then you just kept building on it and building on it to all of a sudden, ah, you're the queen of imposter syndrome and you're being the podcast coach and guru. I just love that. I think that all women and all you people listening out there, there's always a way to get to where you're supposed to go. And like you had said, Andreea, one foot in front of the other, right, one foot in front of the other, just take a little step, see what happens. If it's the wrong step, you can always change tack and go into another step and another direction, it doesn't really matter. As long as you're moving forward.

Andrea Klunder  10:25  
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.That fear of failure holds some of us back, like so often, where we're like, Well, what if I try this thing? And it doesn't work? Or what if I invest this money? What if I, you know, hire a podcast coach, and then I hate podcasting, or whatever it is. There's always like incremental steps that you can make, it doesn't have to be the whole big. I mean, I think that was one of the many mistakes that I made with a yoga studio is I wanted everything fancy and top of the line. Right now I wanted to offer all the services. I wanted, had this big vision, and I didn't yet know how to start with the small step and make that successful. Then build onto that and build on to that. And so with this business, I definitely started with the smallest possible thing I could do, and then continued to build and scale on top of that.

Kathi Burns  11:23  
Yeah, keep it simple. Keep it simple, baby. So you've been doing your podcast for a while. What was your first client? Who was your first client as a podcast coach, so to speak? And what did it feel like whenever you landed that client?

Andrea Klunder  11:37  
Yeah, it's a pretty funny story, actually. I've told her story many times. I had this idea because people were asking me for podcast advice, and I would just give it to them, I would just have a coffee, talk on the phone, whatever it was.  I decided to say, on my podcast, if you've ever thought of starting your own podcast, I can help you sign up here for a free consultation. And someone who I had never met before, who was in I'm in Chicago, she was in California in LA. She was a lawyer, and she wanted to get out of legal practice and get into an entrepreneurial venture. She wanted to start a podcast, she had been listening to my show. She was intrigued, because I in my corny way of communicating, I said, if you want to be my guinea pod, I'm just learning how to do this service. If you want me to practice on you, and be my guinea pot, and she thought that was hilarious. That corny joke is what caused her to contact me. We had the call. She was like, Yes, I want to do this. I want to sign up, how much does it cost? I didn't know, I didn't know how much it cost. I never expected anyone to say yes to this service that I had never done before. Because again, there's that imposter thing, right? No one's gonna book a call with me. No one's going to actually like want to give me money to help them start a podcast. I didn't expect that and I panicked. When she said, Yes, how much is the cause? How do I sign up? Because I didn't have an answer. I stayed calm and stayed cool and I said, I am going to email you within 24 hours with a full proposal of how it all works and then you can let me know what questions you have from there. Then I started Googling around, how much do you launch services costs? How do I structure this? What is this work? We worked together, and we got her show launched. And you know, I probably charged way too little money, but it's fine, because I was figuring it out. Then that was the thing, she wanted me to teach her how to edit her podcast. We did. We started one training session online. and it was maybe 5-10 minutes into the session. She said, You know what? I don't want to do this. I don't want to know how to do this. I don't want to take the time. Can I just pay you to do this for me? And again, I was like, I've never edited some I was editing my own show. But I had never edited anyone else's before. I know people do that. I didn't think of myself as an editor. So I was like, yeah, let me think about what that would look like and I'll send you a proposal. So that's what I did. Then from there, I started doing a lot of speaking events in my community, just small local in person speaking events, most of them were unpaid. I started to saying like, I offer these services, I can help you get started. I can edit your show for you. You don't have time you're busy. It's a learning curve. Let me take care of it. Then little by little, I started to get those cold referrals in and then those clients were happy and they started to refer me to other clients. Now my business has totally grown through word of mouth. And now I'm working not only just with like individual entrepreneurs, but with medium sized companies, nonprofit organizations, and it all just started with putting it out there on my podcast. Thinking no one would say, yes, having a conversation and sending a proposal and everything spiraled from there.

Kathi Burns  15:28  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, you had to have thought that maybe you could have some clients out there, if you started to announce it. So you thought you're not gonna get any but I think you knew in the back of your mind that someone out there needed, whatever it was you had to offer.

Andrea Klunder  15:43  
For sure. Well, I mean, I knew there was a need. So I mean, that's one of the things they say, you know, when you're starting a business is not, not only should you be starting a business, that is something that you like to do something that you're interested in something that you have experience with. But you also need to be solving a problem for someone, right? You also need to see a need that's out there and people were asking me for advice. So clearly, there was a need. The only gap was in my confidence to be able to fulfill that need and get someone to pay me for it as opposed to free advice in a coffee.

Kathi Burns  16:16  
Yeah, exactly. So if you were to do it over again, what would you change?

Andrea Klunder  16:22  
I honestly, I don't think that I would change much of anything. I think it unfolded the way that it needed to. I think the only thing is that maybe it could have happened a little faster. If I had more confidence. Probably I would have tried to charge more money up front.

Kathi Burns  16:40  
Yeah, again, because taking the role on the role of imposter. It's like, oh, I'm not really doing this. It's someone's my other ego that's doing this. Yeah, and I think we all have that, as entrepreneurs, we all like you say, after interviewing several people, I'm sure we all have the imposter syndrome at some point, where we're learning to do what we want to know how to do really well. But we only know a little bit about how to do it. So we all we all cross that bridge at some point as entrepreneur we have to, because we're here to grow and expand and get better at what we do. The only way you can get better, what you do is if you practice something you don't know how to do that. Well, otherwise why do it?

Andrea Klunder  17:19  
Exactly. I always think of the first time I heard this, I thought it was so corny. To be considered an expert, you only have to know more than the person you're talking to and that qualifies you as an expert. Even if there are people who know more than you. I was like, I don't know. But it actually is true. Because if you're one step ahead, you have the ability to help that person shorten their learning curve to help that person save time and effort and money. In some cases, even though they're paying you a lot of times it'll save them money if they work with you to help guide them more quickly and more effectively than what they could have done on their own.

Kathi Burns  17:57  
And saving money and saving time because time is money and finds the time to anything that's finite in our life and money can expand and expand. So yeah, I agree any if we just just a little bit more than we are the expert. Absolutely. And everybody should claim that out there. You are all an expert at something, or many, many things that you don't even realize that you are Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about your best piece of advice, your favorite hack for entrepreneurs who want more freedom and they want more freedom in their life. They feel like okay, they're bottlenecks. What what do you have as a hack? Or what would you what advice would you give them?

Andrea Klunder  18:40  
It's something that I'm working on actively right now in my business and it is SOPs? Have you talked about SOPs yet on your show?

Kathi Burns  18:47  
Ah, no, a little bit. Let's go into it. Sop stands for?

Andrea Klunder  18:52  
Standard Operating Procedures. It sounds so dry and boring. It is not what I got into entrepreneurship for.

Kathi Burns  19:03  
But ya gotta have them both. So you gotta have them.

Andrea Klunder  19:06  
So I I've been in business now for over five years with podcasting. I, maybe I started hearing about this a few years ago, but it just didn't really land as like something I needed to do. Because for a lot of that time, I was by myself in my business, it was just me. Or maybe I had one contractor working with me or something like that. But I got to the point where I wanted to grow and expand. I was working way too much. I was turning down business because I just couldn't take on anymore.  I became clear to me that I needed a team if if I wanted to expand so that's that's the question like, do I want to keep this small and just my personal thing, or do I want it to be bigger and how would that look? So I knew I needed to bring on a team. You know what, it's really hard to get somebody to help you, and somebody that you can delegate to, when all of the processes and procedures and all of the information is all in your head. I am such an internal in my head type of person that it took me a while my first contractor that I was working with is my technical director. He was doing a lot of the really heavy lifting on the technical and the audio engineering side of things and consulting on equipment and gear and stuff like that for clients. He was like, we really need a project management system and here's what I think we should use. That looks too complicated, like, we're doing just fine with email. We're not, we're not doing just fine with email. I don't know what the deadlines are, I don't know when you need stuff by it. I was like, but I always email you. And he's like, No. So we started there. But then even beyond having a project management system, knowing like this, these are the expectations for this client and this is the workflow that we use with this client. This is where all of the files for this client are stored. This is how they're organized, this is how the Dropbox is organized. Yeah, here's where every resource every login, every password, and not only was that necessary for growing a team, which creates some freedom and flexibility, because you have that support structure now, and you can take on more clients, and you can focus on the parts of your business that you do really well. But also, it frees up a lot of that mental space of stuff that I was just holding in my brain and energetically creates the space. It also creates a little bit of a safety net, because I had a few years ago, I had a major health issue that made it an it made it so that I couldn't actively work on my clients work for I want to say it was probably about a month. I needed my team members to be able to step in, and service them during that time, at least like the minimum amount of service to keep their show going. When you have those processes all laid out, it creates that feeling of safety that like somebody can come in and support you in that time. It's sort of like your own internal disability, short term disability insurance. Not only that, but it also helps you to see where your inefficiencies might be. Which can also like free up a lot of time, when you see like, why are we using six different pieces of software to complete this one task? When we could just combine everything together here? Or why do we have this many steps, or when you put those processes down on digital paper, then you can start to see how you can make things more efficient. What software maybe that you've been paying for every month that isn't really necessary that you could just cut out and fill in with a different process where people can support you. It frees you up in so many different ways to have the standard operating procedures. No, I don't like doing it.

Kathi Burns  23:25  
Yeah, I mean, it's a drudge to do it, but it does, it does give you the brain dump and you're talking my language and you're talking about space and energy. If you have more space within your mind, you can actually work on your business and not be in the midst of the business. I love the way that you said that an SOP is an entrepreneurs disability insurance, because I think it's true, it allows us to actually step away and the business is still running. Yhat's a great piece of advice for all of you to think of and you can't delegate until you know what you're doing. So you have to really get real with yourself as what is Andrea doing every single day? How do we make that a standard operating procedure? Have other people do that which she should not? Or what should I not be doing in my business? Once I know what I'm not supposed to be doing then I know what to delegate. But unless there's a system in place, we can't tell them how we can't delegate it out. It's just impossible.

Andrea Klunder  24:21  
Yeah, it's also helpful I think, to have an assistant help you with that process of creating the SOP. So the way that I'm doing it is I did hire a virtual assistant for the first time this January. So what I do is I take a process or a procedure and I make a video of myself doing that thing. I talk through I'm okay this is what I'm doing this is why I'm doing it I'm moving this here this is why this is happening. I send her the I transcribe it for her I sent her the video and the transcription and then she creates like a bullet point step by step Google Doc for that with all the links, all the passwords everything like that. What's interesting is when I then look at her Google Doc, I see where the gaps are, I see where I didn't explain something very well, or I see like, Oh, I totally didn't describe this other internal decision that I was making without saying that I was making it. Then it's that reflective, like, when somebody reflects back to you what you're doing, that you're able to see where you can improve.

Kathi Burns  25:25  
Yeah, absolutely. That's what we use experts for. As a VA, she's an expert at mirroring back to you what you can't see. So every single moving partner within your business is going to allow you to see what you can't see on your own, which we all need that feedback, that's for sure. And that's another reason to delegate back from even people that you know, are like VA, so to speak, and not like staff, it just gives you that perspective. So that's really good advice. So what's one thing that your business has taught you that you think everybody should learn it as entrepreneurs?

Andrea Klunder  26:03  
You may have heard this saying that starting a business is the best form of personal development that you could ever hope to do. You haven't? I'm surprised this feels like it aligns so much with your business and your show. Because you cannot, as an entrepreneur, I feel like you cannot move forward without learning so much about yourself. So here, here's what I really learned from being in business for myself, it's two sides to the same coin. One side is, you are more powerful than you think, like you, this is like the opposite of imposter syndrome, right? You can do a lot, you can make a lot of impact, you can affect a lot of change, you can influence a lot of people. And on the flip side of that coin, it's okay to ask for help. Because that's another one of my things that comes up frequently as I feel like it's my business, I should be able to figure it out. It's my business, I have to do it. It you know, and so I often feel that I have to be the one who solves all the problems, I have to be the one who knows how to do all the things. I should be smart enough to figure this out or solve this problem, or whatever it is. It really has taken me a lot to be able to say I need, want, deserve, can have an assistant. She can take on these responsibilities and roles. And though she may not do the specific task the exact same way that I would do it the way she does, it is fine. It's great. I can ask for a coach and hire a coach to help me learn, see, understand, realize what I can't see on my own. Because I'm too close to it. Being able to say yes, it is okay to ask for help. You are also very powerful at the same time and asking for help sort of makes you even more powerful. Yes, that is really the biggest personal development that I've learned from having my own business.

Kathi Burns  28:29  
I love that. Yeah, because masters hire masters. But we're not. You're not not masterful, how's that for a double negative, you're asked for help. Right. In fact, you're more masterful when you ask for help for things that you can't do. Because we all have this, we cannot do everything. And knowing that we're powerful enough. I think it takes a lot of power to say no, it takes a lot of power to ask for help. If you have that power within you for both of those things to know what you shouldn't be doing and saying no to projects or clients or whatever the you shouldn't be serving. Or to say no, I don't know how to do that can you please help me? There's always someone who will give you a lift up and help you. That's a magical thing. We should will have master's degrees in personal development as entrepreneurs. I claim that, I claimed that. So tell me a time when you felt like you were stuck in busyness and you just couldn't get off the wheel of being busy. You talked a little bit about it. What did you do to get your joy back and get your mojo?

Andrea Klunder  29:40  
Yeah, I mean, it's going back to that asking for help and delegating and hiring out which is not a quick fix. That's a process that takes time to engage in it's in addition to hiring the VA and starting that process, creating the standard operating procedures. I also just at the end of February, beginning of March, I hired on three new associate editors into my business. Editing one of those things that I didn't feel like I could outsource because I felt like that was my specific skill and talent was the editing part of it for so long. That's what I thought that people wanted me to edit their show. They wanted the way that I would edit it, and no one else will edit their show the way that I edit it. It sounds so narcissistic when I say that that way, that's what I was stuck in. What I realized is that, at a certain point, there are some nuances to editing. If you're doing editorial choices, if you're actually editing content for your clients, which some of my clients I do edit content for. We make choices about what what goes, what stays, this piece moves over here, we add voiceover narration here, we add a music transition here, some of my shows are complex like that. They do require that creative editing thing that I feel like is my real expertise. But then there are other shows where it's just cleaning up the dialog, it's just removing the long pauses, it's just trimming a little bit here and trimming a little bit there. There are a lot of people who are very capable of doing that. Probably people who are even better at it than if I'm honest. I realized that that level of editing wasn't, it didn't need to be me anymore. That's something that I can coach someone to do, they can do that. And then that gets me out of that feeling of I'm doing this repetitive task over and over again, which was keeping me feeling stuck and small, and like I couldn't take on new clients. Whereas now, where I'm growing into what my business offers, is not just editing podcasts, not just launching new podcasts, that actual strategy coaching. Talking with the business owner, or the marketing department of a larger company or organization or the community engagement department of the organization. And really looking at the big picture of like, what is your mission? What is your purpose? What is the story you want to tell? How does this align with the goals of your department or the goals of your business? How are you helping your listeners? How are you reaching out and connecting with your listeners through this show. So hiring on support to do that, more like repetitive task oriented work of cleaning up dialogue, editing files, that sort of thing, frees me up to create an even higher level of service for my clients that another production company, or podcast editor isn't going to offer because they're too busy editing, to do big picture strategy type work, which is something that to me is even more fun than editing podcasts. That's what brings the joy is when I see the when I see that light bulb go on with the person that I'm coaching and they're like, Oh, we could use this audio content to launch this whole other campaign to do this and they start to put those pieces together. We see we're not just trying to make a podcast, we're trying to fulfill the mission of that business or organization, using the audio content that they're creating in the business as as as a springboard for bigger and more impactful things. And that's what's really exciting to me.

Kathi Burns  33:38  
Yeah. And it's funny, because we get stuck in the trap of saying, Well, I'm the one that can do it best. My clients want my way. But really, your clients just want a professionally edited podcast, that looks really sounds really great. And when you take yourself out of it, then you're able to do even more bigger, better cooler things, like the vision of the podcast and the creative part of it. Because I know editing is fun at the beginning and then it just turns into a little bit of a drive. So train people to do that. So that's good, good advice. Now, what's the best piece of advice anyone's ever given you as far as just in life or as an entrepreneur?

Andrea Klunder  34:19  
Hmm. Besides telling me that I don't have to do everything alone, and I can ask for help because we already covered that. I'm also this one comes with a caveat. So I've always heard this from a lot of coaches and entrepreneurs, which is start before you're ready. This goes back to that taking one small step at a time. I think yes, I can get very in my head about things and want and I like to research things to death. I like to examine every possible angle every possible way of doing something this person did it this way this person did it this way. You could do it this way you like I love research. You can research and analyze something to death, and still not feel ready to do it. At some point, you have to just take the leap and say yes to something and then it's like the clock is ticking. Once you've said yes, and you've signed the contract, now you have to do it. Even if you don't feel ready, even if you don't feel like you know enough, even if you don't feel like there could be a million other ways to do this thing. To start before you're ready. However,the caveat is that I don't think that you should just willy nilly just like, go out there and say yes to everything and try everything. Say that you're going to do something when you very much don't have a base from which to do it. So it's also like to know yourself well enough to know, this is something I can bite off and this is something that I don't know how to do it now and I might not be ready now. But I know that I can and I know that I can be. So start before you're ready with the caveat of know that you have the ability to get ready once you say yes.

Kathi Burns  36:13  
Right, like you're guinea pod client, just speak your truth and say, well, I think I can do this, and I really want to do this, but I need to guinea pod person to you know, hopefully, show me that I really can do it. You can be my experimental baby, so to speak.

Andrea Klunder  36:30  
She knew she was my first client. I told her, I was like, You are my first client. This is an experiment. Please give me feedback. Anything that isn't working or doesn't make sense, we will figure this out together. And that was a perfect approach, transparent approach for me to take.

Kathi Burns  36:44  
I think transparency at the beginning of any career is really super important. Because you are a newbie at something that you're starting right. And just to be upfront and say I'm a newbie, but I really have passion around this. I have the skill set for it. I'm going to develop as we grow. Just as you're starting your business I think transparency is huge to let people know where exactly you're coming from. And you'll find the clients that resonate with that you'll find the clients that love to help you as you launch and love to help you fine tune your skills and will be great feedback loops. When you don't want or sometimes they're seeing the perfect thing. You're like, Ah, you're totally right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Great. That's really good advice. Okay, so is there anything that I should have asked you that we didn't cover during this interview that you feel is important? To put your message out, we're going to talk about your valuable free resource here in a jiffy. But anything that we we've talked about a lot covered a lot of ground.

Andrea Klunder  37:43  
Yeah. So I think just looking at, because podcasting is my expertise, and I'm working with a lot of entrepreneurs, I think just looking at for someone who is kind of like me, where they're like, Well, I like to listen to podcasts. But I don't really know how a podcast would fit into my marketing plan or fit into my business, or how would that actually, where does that work? Or maybe somebody who has started a podcast for their business already, because we had more podcasts than ever start during the pandemic, there was like a huge boom, which is very exciting. But a lot of people started, because they had extra time on their hands, and they were stuck at home. Now here they are, and business is picking up and things are getting busy. They're like, Hmm, I don't really know if this podcast is doing what I wanted it to do. I'm not sure if it's effective. I don't really know if I should keep going, or what I need to do to make it more successful. Is it successful? Is it not successful? I don't know. There's a lot of that advice out there about how to start. But not a lot of advice about how to really maximize your podcast and allow it to grow and provide you with what it is that you want.  I just kind of want to highlight that some of the major ways that I've seen entrepreneurs, especially my clients, but other colleagues, etc. using a podcast in their business. There's four, like, there's a million different ways you can use a podcast, but there's four favorites that I have, which is using the podcast to help you focus your messaging. So a lot of the people that I work with are mission driven entrepreneurs. We're not just having a business to make money like yes, we want to make money. Yes, we want to have sustainable lifestyle, but we have a mission behind our business. We have something that we want to help our clients and our followers to do we want to upend the status quo in some area and improve people's lives and businesses. And so sometimes that mission can be so big, that it's hard to describe exactly what it is that we want to do and what we're trying to communicate. So having a podcast can really help you focus your messaging. Two, it can help you to claim that authority, so what you're saying is like claiming the master's degree in personal development through having a business, yeah, just in your niche or in your space. Once you have that podcast, you've probably seen this Kathi, since you've started your show is then people start to look to you as a resource in your area of expertise. They are like she has a podcast like, of course, she is the go to person to find out this in that. Third, it can help you to expand your network, because having these types of conversations, these types of interviews, connections, being in Facebook groups with other entrepreneurial podcasters, it gives you that space where we can connect with people all over the world, for that virtual coffee date, that's actually even more valuable to have a conversation like this. And it gives us a better connection than just having a coffee or being at a networking event or whatever, it gives you a whole other way of growing and expanding your network. And then the fourth thing is to build trust with your followers. So a lot of times people are thinking of their podcast as a way to get more clients or get more customers. I think that that's that's a short trip to disappointment and failure. If you're thinking of it as being that literal, like, yes, it can help you do those things that helped me do those things. But if you think of it more as a vehicle by which you're building this relationship with your followers, you're building this trust factor with them. When they're ready to work with someone like you for your services a year from now, two years from now, they already feel like they have a relationship with you, because they've been listening to you week in and week out in their ears. So your voice literally is in their brain are going to be the first person they think of when they're ready to and need to hire or when someone else that they know is like, Oh, I really want to hire a professional organizer. Oh, I really want to hire a podcast consultant, you're going to be top of mind because you have built that relationship in the neurons of their brain. That is one of the most valuable things that you can use your podcast for.

Kathi Burns  42:18  
I love that. That is good. I'm glad we brought that. I'm glad you brought up those. I mean, it was something I'm supposed to be talking to you about. That leads us into the valuable free resource. So what are you going to offer the listeners here that they can download or partake upon?

Andrea Klunder  42:34  
Yeah, for sure. So I have a special URL for your listeners specifically, which is the creative imposter.com forward slash, organized and energized. I was thinking about it, I should have just made it like shorter, I should have just made it organized and then put the whole show organized and energized. That is a free five episode, secret podcast, don't tell now you can tell whoever you want, you can send whoever you want to that URL. It is five questions you haven't asked about your podcast. Those five questions lead you to success through those four different channels that I mentioned. They are questions that are applicable, whether you are thinking of starting a podcast, you definitely are starting one and you're just at the beginning or you've already been podcasting and you're looking for what's next.

Kathi Burns  43:34  
Perfect, that's really good. For those of you even who are thinking about starting a podcast, I'm sure that that that cheat sheet is going to be good as well, because it's going to really fine tune you into possibly what you should be speaking about, and what your podcast should be based on what you're trying to do.

Andrea Klunder  43:51  
They're questions that will really get you thinking about how to focus in on what it is that you're trying to do, and how you're going to do that. Yeah, love it.

Kathi Burns  44:02  
Yeah, love it. Okay. Well, you've been very generous with your time, Andrea, as usual.  I really appreciate talking to you. And this has been a good a good resource for all those of you who are thinking about starting a podcast, go ahead and hit up Andrea, download the first off, go to the link, there is a link that you can actually download. If you didn't get the actual link verbally. In the podcast, you can go ahead and download that resource. Meanwhile, have a fabulous day. Thanks again, Andrea for your time.

Andrea Klunder  44:31  
Thank you so much, Kathi.

Kathi Burns  44:32  
I appreciate it.

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you, to me have a stellar day.

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