Why You've Got To Check Out Today's Episode:

  • Learn about the benefits of Theta Healing.
  • Learn how to heal your inner critic.




[00:00:00] Kathi Burns:
Hi there. I'm board certified professional organizer Kathy Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you, who wanna take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized Podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back and then feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at Organized Energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now, let's get into the show.

Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in again. Today I'm going talk with Karen Abrams and we're going talk about how to solve your upper limit problems. Karen Abrams is a UCLA educated entrepreneur. She's a master data healer, and we're gonna talk about that a lot today. She's a gifted intuitive and international best selling author. For the last 20 years Karen has helped entrepreneurs and professionals release self sabotaging habits so that they can gain clarity, confidence, financial security, and personal fulfillment. Karen's known for integrating her energetic work with practical tools to bring about powerful results. I love putting practicality with energy. That's what it's all about. So join me and let's talk to. Hi everyone. I am back and I'm so very excited today because we are going to talk to a Master Theta healer, and you heard me in the intro, but Karen is the real deal and we're gonna talk a lot about that. But I'm gonna start out as usual to talk about your backstory, Karen, and first off, welcome to the show.

[00:01:52] Karen Abrams:
Thank you so much. I am so honored to be here. I'm looking forward to having fun with you today.

[00:01:57] Kathi Burns:
Uhhuh. Let's play. Yeah, let's play. Talk to me a little bit about your backstory. Tell the people what, how, what do you do and how do you get here? Karen.

[00:02:06] Karen Abrams:
Okay. That's a big one. So I know it is a big one, but that's okay. So I'll start from my back story. When I was 17 years old, my mom was diagnosed with late stage ovarian cancer, and the doctors told her that she had 18 months to live with chemotherapy in six months without. And she did everything that she could do, both conventional and unconventional to get better. So that meant double dose of chemotherapy from UCLA. She had her own therapist. We had a family therapist. She had a nutritionist. The unconventional at this time, cuz this was back in the eighties, she had an acupuncturist, an accupressurist, a psychic healer, a meditation person, an art therapist like she left no stone unturned in her healing, and she healed. She was probably one of the few people in the doctor's office. She was the rock star of the doctor's office. Let me put it to you that way. And she lived for another 30 years and got to see her kids get married, and have grandkids, and have a wonderful life, and without ever having a recurrence, which is almost at that point in time when that happened to her, that was almost unheard of. And so what that taught me was that the doctor's office wasn't the only place for healing. And I began to, even at that young age, I began to go look at things a little bit more holistically than when something was off in my health or whatever. I had to look everywhere to find the answer, and I started applying that to my life moving forward. I think those were, they were definitely the seeds that were planted that made me a healer later on in my life. Absolutely. Those were like the first ones.

[00:03:45] Kathi Burns:
We are blessed. We have a similar story. My mother was diagnosed with cancer when I was 13 and they said she die in six months no matter what, and she had a faith system. She didn't do all the healing modalities. She did a little bit. But basically she made a deal with God and said, if you let me live until my daughter, my youngest gets into college I'm good to go. And yeah, she defied all odds and six years later transition when she wanted to. Yeah. I think it mind over matter and doing whatever modality you can do, works. It really can work. So that's fun. We're like sisters in that.

[00:04:21] Karen Abrams:
Yeah, no, that's really wonderful. You're probably familiar with people like Joe Benza and people who have done the sort of research on this in more of a way that Western people started to understand it as opposed to just having it be anecdotal. Talked a lot about this moment of feeling like you. How to put this, that whatever happens is okay. And my mother told me about a moment where she realized that no matter whether she lived or she died from what was going on, that she was gonna learn the lessons she needed to, from this illness in her life. And for whatever reason, she let go at that moment, and she lived. And I don't know if that's, I just think that was the moment that she moved over that line. And was able to accept whatever it was going to happen instead of being afraid. And I think that makes a huge difference because obviously that fear is like a magnet and it just pulls in. I would say that fear is like this hyper focus on a negative outcome. So you know what you, what is it when, where your focus goes, energy flows. So it just expands in that space and she was okay with it, even though I also knew that she was saying, I'm not going anywhere. I've got four kids. I'm not going anywhere, and I'm sure there are other people who say the same thing and may have a different outcome. She was just really blessed, and it worked out.

[00:05:42] Kathi Burns:
And very powerful, and you were blessed to have such a strong, powerful mother and to experience it. I feel, again, so blessed that I experienced my mother's healing journey and her faith and just to see that definitely it brings such a strong rooting system. And I think to us as we watch these things in our peers, we are both totally blessed on that. I know you're a Master Theta heater. For those who don't know what this is, explain what this is and how this works.

[00:06:13] Karen Abrams:
Okay. So Theta Healing is a simple meditation that just allows you to connect. To your inner wisdom source, whatever that name is for you and to your subconscious mind at the same time, so that you can figure out, or we can divine together, through intuition and discussion. What are the bottom beliefs that are going on for you, that are stopping you in your tracks, that are holding you back? I'm nothing. I'm worthless. I'm unlovable. Nothing ever works for me. How about the one everybody passes me by? Those sorts of bottom beliefs that really get to us and steer us into the rails, and then we can also access. And wait, let me say, so with your permission, we can actually shift those energetically, and then we can also access inside your subconscious mind. All of those trapped emotions that you had from your lifetime, they've been inherited. They might be from the collective, might be from our past lives. They can be from all over the place, but they're there and they're messing with you and they've been inside of you way too long. And so when you go into that theta brainwave state, your mind can actually talk to your body and can release these trapped emotions like, what is it? Trauma and anger and bitterness and replace it with love and compassion and understanding. And what happens is when you can transform your most damaging beliefs, your most negative beliefs into your most powerful and positive ones, and also release these old emotions that have become toxic cuz they've been there for too long and replace them with your most supportive ones. You just start feeling better and lighter. You start making decisions in support of yourself, right? And the dynamics in your relationships begin to change in a loving way, in your favor. And most importantly, I think they're all important, but most importantly is from this, you can have inspired action because all of a sudden all of those walls and those barriers that are between you and being able to take the actions you need to take drop down and so that you're able to move forward in a new and powerful way. Maybe something that you've never done before at a clip that you've never done before, and at a strength and a power that you've never experienced before inside of yourself. It's really fun.

[00:08:32] Kathi Burns:
I think that's fantastic. And we work on both different levels of energetics. I remove the muck that makes people stuck. Do you remove the muck in people's mental? And I think by uncovering when you go into the deep process that you do with your clients, that they see what was stuck there that they didn't even know was talking to them subconsciously. And yeah, I think that's such phenomenal work. So how did you jump into that? What was the progression of your career? When did you start out as a solopreneur? How did it work for you? Cause a lot of the people that are listening to the show are also solo or so entrepreneurs. They might have staff, they might even be thinking about switching into something else. So talk to me a little bit about how that progressed for you and how your career helped happened.

[00:09:19] Karen Abrams:
Okay, sure. With this work, I had a business before this where I taught kids how to study effectively. So essentially the same business, right? Because you've gotta find clients and you're working for yourself and you've gotta be out there and you've gotta do all those sorts of things. And I always felt like that was like a B plus. I loved it. I loved the work I was doing. It was connected to my own personal story of knowing how bright I was, but not having a system, to attach it to. So I had a lot of that, but I also felt at the same time, like I hadn't hit my A yet. I hadn't hit my A game. I was almost there, but I wasn't quite there. And then I watched a friend of mine. Transform her life in what I thought to be a very short period of time. And she was going through, she had things in all the areas of her life. Her health was at a very precarious place. She was in a long term relationship that wasn't going where she wanted it to go to, and she wasn't making the money that she could have made based on the fact that she already had an MBA from an Ivy League school. And all of her colleagues, all of the people that she went to school with were making like $400,000. And this was, in the two thousands when $400,000 was even more than it is now. And so I watched her transformer her health and really improve that to a great degree and start getting the help she really needed. I saw her transform the relationship, into this friendship that it really was at that point in time without having to go through drama or pain or anything, which I've never seen before that moment. And then she started making money. She stopped sabotaging herself. She stopped having these knockdown, drag out fights with her clients and her boss, and all of a sudden, everything was flowing in the right direction. And the month thing is actually what got me because that was the thing I was having the most challenge with. And so she had been working with Theta Healings founder Vianna Stibal. And so Vianna was coming to town, to Los Angeles, and my friend was hosting her, and I took the basic Theta healing class and just watched her work with people in this way that I'd always wanted to be able to do that. She just profoundly, people were profoundly healing in 10 minutes from issues that they had their whole lives. And then they looked 10 years younger. And so it was like, Ooh, I wanna do that. That's really cool. And so when I got home from this, it was a three day event and I got home and I remember that Monday feeling like I could breathe in a way, like very deeply, very calmly. Feeling like I had space in front of me that I didn't know wasn't there beforehand. And at this point, I'd had anxiety for six years and I'd been going to a therapist working with him for a year and a half. We had done amazing work together. He was incredible at what he did in the, and what we did together, and we got it down really low. And yet there was this one part that I couldn't seem to penetrate through. Which meant that I was still waking up in the morning, startled every morning, and my heart was beating through my chest the whole day long, and I don't say that with hyperbole at all. It really was, and what was on my mind at every moment, because the moment that it went away any second that it went away, I would just find it again and it would just start, so I couldn't stop if I noticed. And so in that moment of all that space and that freedom of movement, I realized that my anxiety was gone. And it was the first time in six years that my body had been out of fight or flight and I just flipped out. Cuz usually right that moment was when it all came back and nothing happened. I went and I could still breathe. I was like, oh my gosh. And so I flipped out. I started taking, I didn't even know how to describe this work to anyone. And I signed up for classes and practice classes, put everything on my credit card. I didn't care. I was single then, I didn't have a family. I wasn't married. And I just went for it and dove in. And a few weeks later, some of those symptoms of the anxiety came back. But by this point I was really gathering steam and momentum and learning how to do this work. So I just kept chipping it away and at some point, I can't even tell you when, I don't think it was very long at all. I stopped noticing that I was anxious. And so that thing that was on the top of my list for six years just flew off of it. And another thing came up to work on, but it was no longer that anymore, and I never thought, even though the work that I had done had helped me so much, I just thought I'm just gonna have this the rest of my life, and I'm just gonna have to deal with it at this level, and it'll just be what it'll be. And I was wrong happily. And just to have just moved from there on, into this, really happy life that I'm really satisfied with and happy about.

[00:14:11] Kathi Burns:
Isn't that funny how the universe responds? So it's funny. So you just did a weekend retreat and right away you have relief. I think that things happen instantaneously when they're right on track of where you're supposed to be. And obviously you felt called to that. So talk to me about a client that you've actually helped get through the process. Tell me a quick little story about what was before, what happened during, and then where is his client now?

[00:14:37] Karen Abrams:
Oh, okay. I worked with this and I, I still work with him when he comes in. I work with people in different ways. Some people come regularly, like a therapist, they'll just come. Some people come one officer, project based, right? This is going on, I just wanna work on this when I'm done. I'll see you when I see. This client of mine is a financial planner and when we started working together, and he's been somebody who's like project based and he had hit this income ceiling. And I call those upper limit problems, right? You hit this income ceiling or something. It could be emotional, it could be physical or whatever, and you don't know how to break through. And so we got to the root of what was going on from his past. That was really help because he, cuz you know the examples of what were going on at work were similar to the childhood stories and those sorts of things. So we got down to those original wounds and were able to help him heal them and just open that up for him. And after that he started attracting the kind of clients that he really wanted, which were the seven and eight figure clients who wanted to invest with him. And then after that, and this is even more recently, so his income went up, it just boosted up. And after that, and then more recently, he secured a deal to buy somebody else's practice. So now he's doubling his income from there. And this was all, deep emotional and energetic work. It wasn't like we went, Okay, look at your spreadsheets and what you need to do. This was about who he was being and how to change that so that he could attract what it was that he really desired and now he's really receiving in it. It's just so amazing to watch and be witness to.

[00:16:10] Kathi Burns:
And it's shattering, repeating patterns, yeah. And I think that's so important in your work too because we have a lot of repeating patterns that we don't even know that are there. So obviously this gentleman, and it's funny when you said that, he had it happening in his career, it was like a repeat of what had happened in his childhood. So for those of you listening out there, if you find yourself continually stuck and seeing the same type of people or the same type of situations, might be a time to reset your patterning for sure. So how do you, whenever you have this big breakthrough for your life or for your client, how do you celebrate your successes? What, do you have a little ritual or what do you do?

[00:16:50] Karen Abrams:
I always say it's two things, it's ice cream and a victory dance. Two of my favorite things I like to do, I also just like to sell, I do. I'm just like, Yes. I just feel like there's this one, this is so funny. I just thinking about this. There was a World Series way back when I was a sophomore in college and it was the Dodgers, and I'm a Los Angeles girl. Kirk Gibson hits the home run in the bottom of the ninth. It was like, so Hollywood, right? His ankle is, messed up and he can't even stand on it. And he's up there and he is going and it's, whatever. Bottom of the ninth, three and two, something like that. I It was just like he was just about to strike out or whatever, and he hits a home run and as he and he is running, and I'm like, it was just so remarkable that it gave me the chills. It still gives me the chills when I think about it. And as he was running around the bases, he was going like this. Yes. Just like bringing it in. Bringing it in. And I never forgot that. And so every time somebody has a breakthrough like that, I just go, Yes. And I just go back into that like round in the bases after the home run and the bottom of the ninth. I'm not even a baseball player. I played little league when I was six, when I was in sixth grade and I struck out most of the time . Yeah, that's just, that's what I do. Or I like to just, find the people I love, give 'em high fives and give my clients big hugs cuz, I can't do this work for anybody, and I'm really the person who's in the background, creating that space. I think that all healers and you can see if you agree with me or not, the best healers out there are really just creating this really big space between the client or the person, you and God or you and the universe who, whatever you believe that energy to be. And you're letting you know you do the work. And so Yes. Do I, Is there a process I go through? Absolutely. It's different being in my office than anybody else's or being on the phone with me than anybody else. But I do believe that they're doing most of the work. I'm just back here in the cheering section and trying to work things from the back, from the back end.

[00:18:48] Kathi Burns:
Yeah. A couple things I absolutely love. The yes. Actually a physical thing about a celebration, just it, and then do whatever you wanna do. And I also love the fact that you said that you create the space for the client and it's true. Our clients are the ones that do the work. Ironically, my very first company as a pro organizer was called Add Space to Your Life, and space is so very important to me. Everybody needs space because if you don't have space, you really can't do the work that you need to do on the physical or the mental or the emotional level. Everyone needs space. So I'm a big space proponent. Yes. Yay. Okay. So speaking of space, as a pro organizer, I have to ask you, what's your favorite organizing hack? What do you call upon that really serves you regard to keep yourself organized on a day to day or month to month or whatever?

[00:19:35] Karen Abrams:
Okay, so actually I guess it's not so much of a hack or anything, but it's really like you have to know where you're going to get there, right? What do they say? A dream without a plan is just a wish, right? So I like to go out and say, let's go out for a year. You can have your five year plan, that's fine, but you can just go out to a year. I go, what do I want in the next 12 months to happen for me? What do I want? And you don't have to have all the answers, you just gotta know what you want and then reverse engineer to your monthly goals, and then reverse engineer to your weekly goals, and then to your daily goals. And I do that a lot because if I just go and do what's right in front of me, which my sharpen my pencil and pay my bills, I'll never get anywhere. I'll feel like at the end of the day I might feel really good, but then, you end up going, Gee, why aren't I where I wanna go? And time is precious. I don't know about you, but I'm really feeling that now. And so we really need to keep our eyes on the prize and just create those goals. And that was definitely something when in my twenties, and not as much in my thirties, but definitely my twenties, I was really scared to set goals because I think I was so afraid of failure that I didn't want to fail. And the truth is that the moment that you're afraid of failure, understand that you've already experienced it, that you already feel like a failure. And really what you're saying is, I don't wanna feel that again. I don't wanna go back to that thing that's probably just right there. Yeah, just right there where, and just waiting for you to heal it, but it just sits there. So yeah, I love the goal thing. Now, I've always been a very big proponent in my adult years with lists and love lists. My mom used to have these teeny, tiny pieces of paper with her name on them and then she would write her lists for the day of what she was doing. And I used to think, God, that's so yucky. Ew, who would like that? Blah, blah, blah. And then when I hit my twenties and I went, Oh no, this is really fun. It's so satisfying to cross something off your list. It's very visceral, isn't it?

[00:21:32] Kathi Burns:
Love the cross off. And what a great example too, for her to show you that you're actually doing it. You know that she actually had her little pieces of paper and she planned her day. My father had the little notebook in his pocket, the little timer, and he'd write everything that he was gonna do and all of his schedules and stuff. I think it's funny that, the thing that we are like, ugh, is what we learn and what we actually become for our parents. Like, why is she doing that? Or why is my dad carry around this stupid little notebook? And of course, now we can't live without it. So whenever you go to, to plan and forecast your, you're in advance. Is this written do you write it on a pad? Do you put it in a planner? What type of medium do you use for your pre-planning?

[00:22:12] Karen Abrams:
I have a book that I put these things in, I put 'em in different places. Like sometimes I'll have it just a document, like yearly goals and then I can go down there. But I really like to write. I was gonna, I'm looking around for a pen for me, cuz I just wanna say that I love writing. It's just so immediately rewarding and I think that's the way that you really learn. You don't learn from typing. Even when it's in a computer, but I do seeing it up there because on a computer then, on a document you can rearrange it and you can move things from here and there. But I love having the goals written down. I have a book that I look at them so I can have a little tab that I know I can always go back to it. And I also know that they're not written in stone. That if I wanna change what I want, I can change all of these things cuz it's not really gonna take that long to do. It's not like when I was younger I probably would've been like, Oh, forget it. I'm not doing that. Blah, blah, blah. I've got a million years left in my life. And I think one of the gifts of getting older is that you realize how precious time is, and because you see other people who were the age that you were, that didn't make it past that for reasons that were well beyond their control. So you just go, Oh, I have whatever time I have and that's wonderful and I'm really grateful for it, and let's get this, let's get this puppy up and running.

[00:23:23] Kathi Burns:
Yeah your rebel self. It's so funny as you say that I always have a pin in my houselike that. But at every podcast, actually every point in my , and I'm like, ok, I gotta put the pen, but the pen down, Kathi, don't hold the pen. I'm always holding the pen. I'm always writing because writing does, as a tactile learner myself, writing just really helps solidify in my brain, what the heck I was trying to say or trying to remember or even think about. Writing it is huge. Is huge. So we're twin sisters on that one. Okay. Speaking of the rebel self, so what would you tell your 18 year old self right now if you could think back and say, Hey girl, this is what you need to know. What is it that you would tell her?

[00:24:03] Karen Abrams:
I would say that you have to be your bestfriend. That no one everyone else in, in the outside world, for the most part, are gonna treat you the way you treat yourself. Because who you are being is going to be reflected by the universe and the people that you bring in. And so if you are dismissive of yourself, if you are insecure about yourself, look, these are things we grow through. We all have issues. There's not somebody out there who doesn't, I still have issues. We all do. We're just working through them when we're growing. So you just, you have to be your biggest supporter because, your life is gonna change because the support is gonna come from the outside in. Also, it has to come from inside out and outside in because we know that and I'm sure you know this by now too, you can be your own worst enemy that most of the things that you're gonna do to improve in your life, like to take a class or work with a coach, they're literally talking you out of your negative talk to yourself. And they're saying, You can do this. And we're like we hope I can. I can. I hope I can. I hope I can. I don't know if I can. I probably can't, but I'm gonna try. And they're like, No, you can I'm there. I know you're here and let's go. I know the way out. We can do this together. And so that's, I would definitely do that. I would just say, it's gonna be okay, and you gotta be your best friend, because we need that ally from the inside out in order for us to be able to create the life a happy. You can create another kinda life another way, but if you want a happy one, start.

[00:25:36] Kathi Burns:
I love that, be your own support group and be your best cheerleader. I think we do listen to ourselves more than we think we do. And so the self talk within us is so very important to evaluate and just cheerleader ourselves on. And one thing that I found is it's never about me. When I find myself thinking that I'm being judged it's never about, It's about the person, but it's about me actually when I'm judging myself. So yeah, I think that's super important. Be your own cheerleader. I love that. So I know that you have something to offer the audience, and I'm so excited to hear what it is that you can provide for them. I'm sure they're waiting to hear too.

[00:26:16] Karen Abrams:
Oh, okay. Since I work with people with healing their upper limit issues, and that could be right in finances, that could be in your relationship, your health, whatever it is in your life. Finding that there's some voices inside of you that are telling you that you're not enough, that you're less than, that you're insecure. Those voices are also telling you to, To wait for the other shoe to drop. And those were very important things that we needed ancestrally because we could be attacked by a live animal, right? And we could be attacked by another tribe member or another person. And so we needed to stay safe and prepare for the worst in order for us to be able to survive. But now we're somewhere where we can thrive, even in all the stuff that's going on in this world right now that we think is so different from any other time in history. People are thriving. There's a lot of people here who are still thriving. There's a lot of people who pivoted and are thriving. And the way they can do that is by taking that negative self speak and turning it around, like turning your, And I have a class that I teach called Turning Your Inner Bully into Your Best Friend. And so this what I'm offering to you right now. What you can have for free is this Theta Healing Meditation, which is just energetic downloads to help you soothe your inner critic and help create positive messages instead of hold onto those negative ones. And I always suggest that you do this at night. I call it an evening meditation, just to actually enhance the advice of doing it at night because whatever it is that you do at the end of the evening before you go to sleep, marinates in your subconscious for another seven or eight hours, however long you're asleep. So you might as well get the most bang for your free buck. So this one is called Healing Your Inner Critic. It's a really brief fade of healing meditation that's just geared to help you heal that inner critic and move into that place of completely supporting yourself to build yourself a really happy and abundant life.

[00:28:13] Kathi Burns:
That's a huge gift and I'm gonna listen to it tonight for sure. I love doing the ending my day with gratitude and, talk that, is a preference for the Theta Healing process. I'm excited so everybody makes sure to download that. I think that's gonna be really good for you to help remove your blocks, and that's very generous. Thank you.

[00:28:30] Karen Abrams:
You're so welcome. It's such an honor to be here. This is so much.

[00:28:33] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, I know we're having some fun and I didn't know we had such parallel lives here.

[00:28:37] Karen Abrams:
I know. Very cool.

[00:28:38] Kathi Burns:
What's the one thing that I should have asked? Have we missed anything that you really wanna talk about? I always wanna ask my guests that because maybe there was something burning on your mind or something you have upcoming or anything at all that you wanna speak about.

[00:28:50] Karen Abrams:
I think you've actually said it. I think that people have to find what's works for them, right? Because everybody's deck is different, and the way you shuffle it is different. And so someone may be, looking at what I do and think, Wow, that's really great. And some people might look at it and go, I like this other thing instead. And so I always say, find the stories that relate to you, and the healing journeys that relate to you. And so we shared about the financial planner. I can give you like another example of somebody and that would be it, of a relationship issue that I thought was really poignant that I thought I could share with you, which was about this couple who were a married couple who were just in this really tough place in their life where they were so disappointed and angry with each other that they would trigger each other. They couldn't get through a day without fighting and they had a child. So the kid was in between this, which was really tough, and they were going through a lot of stuff. So I worked with them separately on what were the wounds that were being triggered by the spouse, the other spouse. And when we healed those wounds and when they healed those wounds they weren't triggered there anymore. So if that spouse said something unconsciously or consciously to try to dig at the other person, nothing happened. And what was so great since both of them were doing the work they found more compassion for themselves and for each other. And it really saved their marriage and then saved their family because they became once again this tight little happy unit that is still thriving to this day, both with their businesses and their lives together. So that always just makes me really happy.

[00:30:20] Kathi Burns:
Yeah, what a blessing. And I think it's so important that you worked individually with each person, because really we have to work on our own stuff and then, we're the ones that are getting triggered is our story. We think it's the spouse is laying in on us, but now it's, it's our story that we need to really reconcile and eliminate and oh, what a great blessing for the child as well. This has been a pleasure. I really so appreciate having you on the show, and I've enjoyed our conversation. Make sure to download gang download that meditation. I'm literally going to do it tonight and enjoy that. And for those of you who have enjoyed this interview and you want to learn how to organize your life and simplify your life, make sure to download my gift as well, and download if you like us, love us. Share this podcast, Spread the love. We would love that. And I would so appreciate it. I appreciate having you on the show. So thanks so much, Karen, it's been a pleasure.

[00:31:13] Karen Abrams:
And thank you. It's been such an honor to be here.

[00:31:16] Kathi Burns:
We will see all of you soon.

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you wanna hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you to me. Have a stellar day.

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